Newbie Stand Alone CD Burner Questions

  • Thread starter Thread starter Chris F
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Chris F

Chris F

New member
I've been trying to read up on the whole "Computer vs. Stand Alone" CD recording issue, and I'm not sure I understand some of the terms people are throwing about. Maybe someone can help.

I've been recording acoustic jazz duos and trios ( bass & grand piano, or bass & guitar, B+P+drums) in my music room using a Yamaha MD4s. I'm happy with the results I'm getting, but would like to be able to mix down from the 4 track directly to CD without going through a computer. I understand that a lot of folks don't like stand alone units, but if they will do what I want, I'd be interested in getting one, preferably rack-mountable if possible.

My requirements for a CD burner are: it must be able to burn a CD in a format that will be playable on home systems; and it should do it in a way that allows me to burn one song at a time onto the CD from MD. I do have the capability of mixing down to stereo MD before going to CD, and if I have to do this it's fine. I'm not looking for pro results here, but if the CD I burned sounded exactly like the stereo MD I mix down to (it has optical outs, if that matters) I'd be thrilled.

I've heard a lot of different things from different people about how you have to record the whole disc at once if you use CD-R, but that if you use CDR-W, it won't play on a home audio system. Others say that this isn't true. Like most of us here, I'm working on a budget, but I have some really fine players come over to do sessions with me on a regular basis, and I'd like to be able to offer these folks a CD to take home with them the same day or the next day without having to go through the whole computer editing experience. What are my options for a box that will do what I'm looking for?

Thanks,
Chris Fitzgerald

P.S. - did I post this in the right forum?
 
Yo Chris:

I'm going to go with Bruce V. from Blue Bear studios and say that you need an Alesis Masterlink. It should do all the things you want it to do as it has a "hard disc" storage section in the unit. You can, therefore, mix down many songs into the hard drive and, when you are ready, make up your song list and, Voila, you will have a RED BOOK CD that should play in about any other CD player around, except one made by Motorola in the 50's. [only kidding]

If the Masterlink is not in your budget, Sony has two new burners out: Sony 33 and 66 models.

Also, the Tascam 700 burner has been highly recommended to me for general use. I've been doing reserch on units for about three months and I'm pretty sure I'm going to spend the extra cash and get the Masterlink, latest model with added software.

Want to add anything Bruce?

Green Hornet
 
The Green Hornet said:

If the Masterlink is not in your budget, Sony has two new burners out: Sony 33 and 66 models.

Also, the Tascam 700 burner has been highly recommended to me for general use. I've been doing reserch on units for about three months and I'm pretty sure I'm going to spend the extra cash and get the Masterlink, latest model with added software.

Want to add anything Bruce?

Green Hornet
Click to expand...

GH,

Thanks for the reply. The Masterlink looks great and I'd love to have it, but I just spent $4500 on a new bass, bought some new mics, and then spent about another $1000 to have my piano voiced and regulated all in the last 6 months....so if I tried to pull off a Masterlink at this point, my financial advisor (a 5'2" brunette) would give birth to a very large bovine creature which she would insist on keeping right smack in the middle of my music room. Maybe some day....

Do you think the Sonys or the Tascam would do what I need (just not as well as the Masterlink)? How can I cut through the jargon to figure out if they have the features I'm looking for? Who sells them?

Thanks again for the reply.

Chris
 
Chris F said:
My requirements for a CD burner are: it must be able to burn a CD in a format that will be playable on home systems; and it should do it in a way that allows me to burn one song at a time onto the CD from MD. I do have the capability of mixing down to stereo MD before going to CD, and if I have to do this it's fine. I'm not looking for pro results here, but if the CD I burned sounded exactly like the stereo MD I mix down to (it has optical outs, if that matters) I'd be thrilled.

I've heard a lot of different things from different people about how you have to record the whole disc at once if you use CD-R, but that if you use CDR-W, it won't play on a home audio system. Others say that this isn't true. Like most of us here, I'm working on a budget, but I have some really fine players come over to do sessions with me on a regular basis, and I'd like to be able to offer these folks a CD to take home with them the same day or the next day without having to go through the whole computer editing experience. What are my options for a box that will do what I'm looking for?
Click to expand...
The info you were given regarding CD-Rs and CD-RWs is correct -- most home stereos/cd players will NOT play CD-RWs no matter how they are burned.

Some will not play CD-Rs either. CD-Rs are not the same as commercially produced CDs. Their pit depth is much smaller, requiring a more powerful laser pickup assembly to read them correctly. In addition, they must be burned disc-at-once.

The Masterlink IS a fine unit, but there is a cheaper HHB unit available that is supposed to be good, as well as the Tascam already mentioned by GH.

I personally find the Masterlink such a useful tool that it'd be worth the inconvenience of a bovine assistant engineer, but YMMV........ ;)

Bruce
 
Re: Re: Newbie Stand Alone CD Burner Questions

Blue Bear Sound said:

The info you were given regarding CD-Rs and CD-RWs is correct -- most home stereos/cd players will NOT play CD-RWs no matter how they are burned.

Some will not play CD-Rs either. CD-Rs are not the same as commercially produced CDs. Their pit depth is much smaller, requiring a more powerful laser pickup assembly to read them correctly. In addition, they must be burned disc-at-once.

Does this mean that you can't index your tracks when you do "disc at once"? I'm assuming that if I mixed down to stereo MD and did all my editing there, I'd be able to burn "disc at once", right?

The Masterlink IS a fine unit, but there is a cheaper HHB unit available that is supposed to be good, as well as the Tascam already mentioned by GH.

 I'll check those out, thanks. Do you know where to find them, or what the prices (ballpark) are? And whether they can do what I'm looking for? Any info would be greatly appreciated.

I personally find the Masterlink such a useful tool that it'd be worth the inconvenience of a bovine assistant engineer, but YMMV........ ;)

Bruce
Click to expand...

Man, I hear you, believe me. BUT, I'm pretty crazy about my wife too, and ya gotta admit, she's let me get away with a pretty good haul in the last 6 months with few complaints.

The Masterlink is about $1350, right? If so, the cow would be a raging bull. If any of the other units will do what I'm looking for for half the price or less, I'll probably go that route. If not, I'll just have to start saving pennies...

Thanks again.

Chris
 
Okay, DUUHHHH! I found the Tascam and others. It looks like they'll do what I'm looking for....So the big difference with the Alesis is the Hard Drive, effects plugins, and editing capabilities, right?

Also, what does "red book" refer to?
 
The Masterlink offers a lot of post-mix processing capability along with editing features.

Red Book is the current standard specification for audio CD recording - the 2 main specs are disc-at-once burning, and 16-bit recordings witha 44.1khz sampling rate.

Every audio CD in the world conforms to the Redbook standard.

Bruce
 
Bruce,

Thanks yet again for the info. I'm getting excited about all of this stuff...I have an instrument - a "backup" acoustic bass - that I might consider trying to sell if I get psyched enough about the Masterlink, and if there's a buyer interested. One last question, and then I'll shut up about all of this: does anybody know where I might be able to find reviews of the any/all of the aforementioned units? My only experience with Tascam is one of their old Tape machines, I've never used any Alesis stuff, and I've never even heard of HHB.

This forum is fantastic. Thanks for all the help.
 
What??? You don't trust us???????????? ;)

:D


About all I can suggest is a web-search.......

Bruce
 
Philips CD775 under $400.00 !

I have two Philips CD Recorders, One is a dual deck CD 775 and the other is a single deck. They both work great.

Philips is the originator of the Compact Disk (CD) ans well as the creator of the format. They have proven reliable and affordable.

You have to use CD Audio blanks, but when finalized they will play in any CD player. Blank discs are available now for under $1.00 each. (Target, Walmart etc.)

You can also use CDRW Audio disks, that will allow you to edit tracks and erase etc. But then you will have to copy on to a standard CD Audio disc to play back in a normal CD player.
( Oh by the way I don't work for Philips, Walmart etc. I work for Intel)

Sincerely;

Dom Franco
 
Problem with CD Audio discs is that they are preformatted with the copy bit set permanently - you cannot make digital transfers of recordings with these discs - which is a big problem in a studio setting.

Bruce
 
Blue Bear Sound said:
Problem with CD Audio discs is that they are preformatted with the copy bit set permanently - you cannot make digital transfers of recordings with these discs - which is a big problem in a studio setting.

Bruce
Click to expand...

Warning: The following may be an extremely stupid question, but I'm an admitted newbie to all of this, so...

Does this mean that if I had a dual burner like the Phillips, Onkyo, etc....that if I made a disc of a bunch of shit that I just recorded, it wouldn't let me make a copy of it? That can't be right, can it?
 
You wouldn't be able to do a DIGITAL copy of it on any gear that checks the copy-bit setting - which is pretty much most consumer gear.

You'd always be able to do an analog copy.

Bruce
 
For ~$5 billskis you can get a pro format CDRW standalone in the CDRW 5000 from TASCAM. They're getting harder to find, but they're still around. Or pay a little more and get TASCAM's latest pro standalone. You can avoid that copy-protection or use it: your choice. I prefer to import tracks at 1x via S/PDIF rather than "rip" the data faster with my CD-ROM. Supposedly newer generation internal burners can do a "rip" at 32x as accurately as the slower import method, but I don't have one to test.....
 
Hmmmmm. A Ghost Post.
Just a test to see if this throws paint on the ghost.
 
I found a couple more stand alones, and was seriously looking into a couple of dual-tray units for making copies before I realized that I can make a master on any unit and then play it back on my regular CD player. Duh. Sooo...the idea is, if the unit you get has the copy protection code built in, you can't make digital copies, and you are restricted to the "audio only" media, which costs about $1 per disc.....but if you get a unit with switchable protection code, you can use the cheaper discs, which go for about .50c a pop.

Have I got that right? If so, I can see the second scenario paying for the difference in initial cost by making it up in media cost before too very long.
 
Hi Chris

I just recently bought a Sony CDR-W33 stand alone burner. It came with rack mount ears (which I don't need). I've been very impressed with how easy it is to use and understand the manual. It can record digitally on to the cheapo discs (though the manual says to use CD-Audio discs) and plays back on my old home CD player, car CD, etc. just fine. I got mine at Sam Ash because when I called to inquire about CD burners, the sales rep said the magic words. "If you buy it with the Sam Ash credit card, it's 12 months same as cash." I qualified over the phone in about 2 minutes for the card (I have GREAT credit - I owe everyone for miles around!!) check out www.samash.com.

(No- I don't work for Sam Ash!!)

mutt
 
Mutt,

Thanks for the link. I checked out the Sony, and it looks like exactly what I need. My MD stereo deck is a Sony, and it works beautifully, is easy to understand, and has an optical out. I'm curious about the issue of the cheaper CDR discs (not the "audio only ones") though....how does that work? I thought that if the unit uses SCMS, it won't allow you to make a digital copy onto any other kind of disc, but maybe I just don't understand the concept well enough. Answer me this: with your unit, can you

1) Burn a CD of your original material, finalize it, and then
2) take that disc, put it into your regular CD player, then
3) Hook your regular player up digitally to your (Sony) burner and make copies that way?


If so, then I think this may be the machine for me. Let me know about the above stuff, and thanks for your reply. I like the idea of buying a brand that has never let me down even once in the past.

Thanks,

Chris
 
Just a follow up for "closure" purposes: The other day while doing some completely unrelated shopping at SAM'S, I walked past the audio isle, and was astonished to see the TEAC RW-250 on sale for $249.00. Not believing my eyes, I spent some time on the net the next night researching the unit. It looked good, so I went back the next day and bought one up.

The results are good, and this thing should hold me for demo purposes for the next couple of years (at which point I can get a masterlink or equivalent). To clear up the issue - the machine WILL let you make a digital copy of a disc you burned on it, as long as you burned the disc using the analog inputs. This is fine for me, since I have to mix down via analog anyway, and I might try sonusman's trick of using the ART (or some other) mic pre to warm up/limit the sound on the way in. As long as the initial disc is burned analog, I can make as many digital copies as I want. Maybe not high end, but very practical for the immediate future.

Thanks for the help everyone.
 
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