Newbie question about subwoofers

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MGW

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I just introduced myself in the newbie section. This is my first question. I did a search first to see if my query had already been addressed but didn't find what I was looking for so here goes.

I have a pair of Yamaha HS8 monitors and I am thinking of adding a sub to the system. I looked at the Yamaha site and there is a sub in the HS series called HS8S. When I went to search for prices I noticed there were a decent number of this other HS sub for sale which I didn't see on the Yamaha site. It's called the HS10W and it appears to be about a hundred bucks cheaper. Upon doing some quick research I learned it is actually an 8" sub and appears to be virtually identical to the HS8S in appearance and physical dimensions including weight. Unfortunately there really was no definitive comparison that I could find between the two. I am wondering if anybody knows these HS8S subs are exactly the same as the HS10W but with different badging or if they might be new and improved somehow. If they're the same I might as well save the hundred bucks. If there is a difference I'd be interested to know what that is. Thanks in advance.
 
The HS8S goes to 160Hz while the the 10 goes to 180Hz.

The shape of the cone is the same. The wattage is the same. The enclosure is the same. The impedance is the same. It looks like there is an extra output on the 10.

Aside from the extra Hz and the extra connections on the 10, they both seem the same. But I cannot find a comparison of frequency responses anywhere. I would honestly save the 100 bucks.
 
MGW said:
I have a pair of Yamaha HS8 monitors and I am thinking of adding a sub to the system.
Click to expand...

Those speakers go low enough to not really need a subwoofer. If your aim is to have a better bass response in your room, you'll get much more benefit by adding bass traps instead of a sub.

--Ethan
 
Thanks, Crows.

Ethan, thank you for responding but I am confused.

Again, I am a newbie.
I am not trying to be snotty here but please explain to me how something that absorbs LF sound pressure will improve bass.
That is ... unless there is another kind of bass trap that I don't know about, maybe?
The only bass traps I've ever heard about absorb bass in rooms that are inherantly boomy and help the system provide a flatter response.
That's not my issue in the slightest. Perhaps it's my bad for not making this clear at the start. My room is much larger than typical and the near-field monitors aren't exactly near.

Am I missing something here?
 
Other people can chip in with their scientific knowledge, but the general rule is...you cannot have too many bass traps.

Bass traps don't necessarily "remove" bass, it just equalizes so you here it honestly.
 
They prevent your room from resonating at low freqs; which is where most problems lie in a mixing room. By removing the nulls and peaks in your room's response, you'll hear your mixes more accurately. The bass traps won't improve your speakers, they improve your room which is just as important.

Best bang for the buck to get a good mix.
 
Again, I am a newbie and I thank you fine folks for weighing in but I am still confused. Some of this advise simply does not compute for me. At least not yet anyway. I guess maybe I am going to need some kind of scientific explanation after all. I just checked Wiki. Bass traps are exactly what I thought they were and they do in actual fact absorb sound. I don't have 10 posts yet so I can't post URLs.

I will keep searching the net for more info on how they work.
In the meantime, thank you folks for your input.
Hopefully it will keep coming.
I need to wrap my head around this before I make a decision.
 
Go to Ethan's website. He has a great explanation, particularly about standing waves
Build a Better Bass Trap

The HS8's should be good without the need to add a sub woofer. If you feel you need to add a sub to get a better bottom end on your mixes, then you need to consider your room first. Properly treating your room will give it better response acoustically and you'll hear the bottom end better. As it is now, if the bottom end is weak, then you are probably situated in a null spot where some of the low freqs are cancelled out.
 
MGW said:
please explain to me how something that absorbs LF sound pressure will improve bass.
Click to expand...

You already got good answers, and I can add a bit more.

All room acoustic problems are caused by reflections from the walls, floor, and ceiling. These reflections create echoes, reverb and ambience, peaks and nulls, comb filtering (a form of peaks and nulls), and a form of reverb known as "modal ringing." If the reflections arrive at the microphone in phase with the direct sound you get a peak as large as 6 dB (double the sound pressure). If they arrive out of phase you get a null, and nulls can easily be 30 dB deep or more. So adding bass traps improves both peaks and nulls at low frequencies. My bass trap article Chili linked is good, but this gives a better introductory explanation:

Acoustic Basics

--Ethan
 
Ethan Winer said:
You already got good answers, and I can add a bit more.

All room acoustic problems are caused by reflections from the walls, floor, and ceiling. These reflections create echoes, reverb and ambience, peaks and nulls, comb filtering (a form of peaks and nulls), and a form of reverb known as "modal ringing." If the reflections arrive at the microphone in phase with the direct sound you get a peak as large as 6 dB (double the sound pressure). If they arrive out of phase you get a null, and nulls can easily be 30 dB deep or more. So adding bass traps improves both peaks and nulls at low frequencies. My bass trap article Chili linked is good, but this gives a better introductory explanation:

Acoustic Basics

--Ethan
Click to expand...


This, and Ethan mentioned that you own the HS80s, which go pretty low. I own HS50s and I really needed a sub to hear those lows. This isn't an admonishment by me to stay away from the sub, but it's something to consider.
 
OK, so I will look into bass traps in addition to considering a sub. It looks so far like every link provided here refers to the use of fibreglass. I did a quick search for fibreglass for sale in my area but they all seem to be fibreglass products already made and of course the majority refer to insulation batts. Who are some of the principle manufacturers of rigid fibreglass? And what other buzzwords could I use to help refine the search?

Thanks.
 
MGW said:
OK, so I will look into bass traps in addition to considering a sub. It looks so far like every link provided here refers to the use of fibreglass. I did a quick search for fibreglass for sale in my area but they all seem to be fibreglass products already made and of course the majority refer to insulation batts. Who are some of the principle manufacturers of rigid fibreglass? And what other buzzwords could I use to help refine the search?

Thanks.
Click to expand...

Good questions. Buzzword... Owens Corning 703 or OC703. 2ftx4ftx4in. While OC703 is the mainstay for DIY bass traps, I like the Johns-Manville equivalent better. The fibers are bonded together better and it seems to be sturdier than OC703. I can't remember the brand name of it; something like Rigid Fibreboard. When shopping around for the stuff, compare Density values. It's all about the density of the material that determines how well it will work in acoustic applications. OC703 is 3lbs per cubic foot, or something like that.

There are some other manufacturers as well. Roxul is one of them, though I personally have no experience with it.

Check out the Studio Build forum here at HR and browse through the threads. Tons of information on what to use, how to build, where to place them in your room.

If you have separate rooms for tracking and mixing, the mixing room is more important to treat properly. If you are like most of us and use one room for everything, treat as if it were a mixing room.
 
Thank you!! :thumbs up:

My rig is in my living room so anything I build will have to be decorative. My music studio is crammed full of gear and there simply is no room for a recording station. I still have some logistical issues to sort out in that regard.

I guess these traps have to be exposed? I don't imagine one could hang one of these things on the wall and then mount a picture in front of it?
 
Just cover them with cloth the wifey likes. :)

Printed fabric covering is ok, as long as it is breathable.
 
MGW said:
I don't imagine one could hang one of these things on the wall and then mount a picture in front of it?
Click to expand...
Actually, my wife and I have plans to do just that. Our living room has huge vaulted ceilings and it can get a little loud with all the reflections. My wife is an artist and she hangs her big pieces in the living. We talked about putting OC703 behind the art to help calm the room a bit. we're only in the 'talking' stages because the next step is the 'doing' stage and I'm lazy. (Plus, it's a pretty big job!!)

Check out Ethan's site again. He has pics of bass trap panels nicely mounted in his media room. As Jimmy mentioned, you can cover the panels with a light breathable fabric. I found mine in the bargain bin at Walmart, super cheap.

... and about those "logistical issues". I can only laugh because I feel your pain. :D
 
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