Newbie on a budget.

[Lerastes]

I'm going to get started on some home recording with a friend of mine (I'll be doing guitar and vocals, he'll be doing bass, drums will be courtesy of my computer, see below). But, being we're both total newbies to doing any sort of recording that doesn't sound like $5 trash, we're a but stuck on what exactly to do.

I have a budget of about $350 to spend on working on getting my home studio up and running. My friend is a few states away, so his bass parts will be done independantly of the guitar/drums/vocals, and will then be emailed to me to mix into the rest of the tracks. Basically, with my limited budget, I need to set up the entire studio. Right now I have a $50 bass amp, a Toneworks AX1500g effects pedal, and a $20 microphone and stand. I honestly have no idea where to start and what to get. Another issue is that I can't dedicate a room to recording other than my own small room, so things like wall dampeners and large mixer systems aren't an option.

Another major obstacle is the fact that we don't have a drummer and every single drum program/sample sounds like complete garbage for our music (melodic death metal - imagine if Opeth, Nevermore, and Morbid Angel had a baby). Despite hours upon hours of scouring the internet for SOME semblance of a decent drum kit sample, we've had no luck. If it helps, the sound we're looking for is a lot like Raymond Herrera of Fear Factory (the fact that he triggers his bass drum makes it that much harder to find a good sound that's similair to him).

Another issue is my guitar tone. While the guitar itself is decent quality (a Schecter Omen-6 and Washburn WG587-V), I can't manage to get a decent distorted tone out of this AX1500g. It sounds very overdriven and muddy, especially when palm muting, like it's being played too loudly from a cheap amplifier.

So is our dream of a jewel case with our name on it out of reach with our modest budget, or can we squeeze it dry to get some decent tracks out there for the masses to enjoy? I almost wish that we were into country/blues so we could get away with sounding like we were playing instruments from a garage sale.

EDIT: I forgot to mention that a recommendation on good recording software is also very good. Right now we're using Audacity, and while it's nice for basic stuff, it's lack of features and functionality is irritating.

 

[hail_aqualung]

Software:
Mac - Logic
PC - Cubase

 

[jdier]

$350 is not a boatload but you can definately get a good start and have some fun.

I would start with this interface. Allows you to plug in a guitar or bass directly and use all kinds of software effects, or plug in a mic and sing or mic your guitar amp.
http://www.music123.com/Line-6-TonePort-UX1-USB-Audio-Interface-i250717.music

I would get a decent mic:
http://www.musiciansfriend.com/product/Shure-SM57-InstrumentVocal-Mic?sku=270102
http://www.musiciansfriend.com/product/Shure-SM58-Mic?sku=270101

If you never really plan to, or want to buy another mic, I would suggest the SM58 which is a great everything mic. If you think that this mic is the first in a large collection (which will eventually lead to you eating ramen noodles for weeks on end to save for mics that cost more than your car, followed by threads of divorce from your wife) then I would suggest the SM57 which for many, it THE go to mic for micing guitar cabs. Either mic will do a fine job on vocals and guitars, but I would suggest that the 57 is more of a guitar mic and the 58 more of a stage vocal mic.

Pick up a pop filter:
http://www.musiciansfriend.com/product/Nady-Pop-Filter?sku=421139
Depending on how cheap you are, you could also take an old nylon stocking, stretch it over a wire hanger then duct tape it to your mic stand. Depending on source nylon this could be a very pleasant or very offensive smelling device, but either way, it will be ugly.

And finally buy some software to do all of the recording:
http://www.reaper.fm

I suggest Reaper for a few reasons:
1. It supports recording and mixing with compressed file formats
2. You can try it before you buy it
3. It is very cost effective

I recently gave Reaper a try while trying to figure out if I should upgrade my Sonar or move to Cubase. After about a week I decided to buy it and mix my current project with it. So far I have been really pleased.

For your dream of assaulting the masses with jewelcases with your pictures on them, I am sure many will tell you that you need to spend more, but hey, you have the money you have. Make the most of it.

Regarding drum tone good news and bad news. There are loads of samples available. Most are shit. You can make them work, it just takes loads of time. My suggestion is to find someone on the internet into your type of music. Best way would be to use your crappy drum samples and get down all of the rest of the stuff sounding great, then post the song somewhere like the Collaboration page at womb.mixerman.net and see if anyone is interested in laying down drums for you. You could likely find someone looking to work on a project who has a drum room and would be into collaborating with you. If you do not like that idea, then get to work finding good drum sounds and find a way to make them work for you.

Regarding your dream guitar sound, head over to http://womb.mixerman.net and give a good listen to the Slipperman Recording Distorted Guitars From Hell stuff. Getting a great distorted tone is not a walk in the park, but an SM57 is a good place to start... after that it is up to you to get a good sound out of your amp. Your pedal, like the Toneport built in sounds will likely continue to produce mediorce sounds. There is a reason all the major albums you buy and listen too were recorded with killer amps in big studios with great engineers... it is because getting a killer guitar sound is not as easy as buying a pedal and plugging it in. You have to work it out the old fashioned way... Great Performance + Great Amp + SM57 + press record. Read up the stuff from Slipperman.

Remember, as you are working on all of this that the main source of your problems might be your listening environment... If you ever are mixing something that sounds totally killer in your bedroom but like total canned ass once you burn a CD that is a good indication that your mixing environment is lying to you. Bad news here. This cost money to fix. You can work around it, and plenty have, but be warned, the room you mix in and the speakers you mix on are pretty darn important. Again, you can do it anyway you want, even headphones, but it will be tough.

So, I think we are in your budget:
$130 Toneport
$100 SM57 or SM58
$ 25 Pop Filter
$ 40 Reaper
-----
$295 Total

Why I like this package is that as you move on and your home studio grows there are some items in there that you will not have to replace... I would guess you would own the pop filter, the SM57/58 and Reaper for a good long time. When it is time to upgrade you have a few choices...

Pick up some new monitors or buy some treatments for your mixing room
OR
Add a Mic (Maybe a LDC mic, or an SM7 or Beyer M88)
OR
Trade up on your interface (maybe an RME FF400 or some such thing)

There are millions of options that could be better or worst, more pricy or cheaper than mine, but it is all to taste. Having worked with all of the items above, I can vouch that they will work and you will be able to make pretty good recordings (given good songs and performances.)

Hope that helps.

Later

 

[cusebassman]

If you never really plan to, or want to buy another mic, I would suggest the SM58

Have you really made pro-studio recordings using JUST an SM-57/58? I know, its a good mic. But I have a feeling most would wind up buying different mics for different things.

However, it is indeed a good mic to start with (wide range of uses for the price) - probably much better than buying a shitty condenser or something like that (haha I know... I prob shoulda gone with a 57 over the MXL 990 I first started with, oy)

As for the rest of your advice, its pretty spot-on. I'd say search the forum for interface advice before buying the TonePort... never heard much about it around here, and I've seen a lot more suggestions for other good, pretty cheap interfaces that comebundled with decent software - so you might be able to invest more in an interface w/ software rather than buying the software separately. Just another suggestion

 

[jdier]

Have you really made pro-studio recordings using JUST an SM-57/58? I know, its a good mic. But I have a feeling most would wind up buying different mics for different things.

I have never made a Pro Studio recording at all, but you mis read me. I am saying what you are saying... Most will buy different mics for different things! but, if you are only going to own ONE mic I can't think of a better jack of all trades than the 57 or 58.

I'd say search the forum for interface advice before buying the TonePort... never heard much about it around here

I have used the Toneport. I have also used a few other low enders. The specific reason I suggested that one was because of the line 6 guitar software emulation... I personally am not a big fan of emulation, but it seems that this guy is trying to get some big modern sounds. I thought the line 6 stuff would be a step up from his stomp box and hold him over until he get's that marshall stack

 

[whjr15]

I almost wish that we were into country/blues so we could get away with sounding like we were playing instruments from a garage sale.

You gotta be kiddin'! Definitely one of the most asinine statements I've heard in a while.

Hate to break it to ya, but your whole budget for your whole STUDIO is a tiny ass fraction of what any reputable country/blues musicians' GUITAR costs... Let alone any of their other gear, or studios they record in.

 

[Lerastes]

Thanks a lot for the advice! It all looks like good stuff. I was actually looking at replacing my AX1500G with something from Line6. The POD is what caught my eye, but the TonePort seems to be a better investment because of the fact that it's also a mic and bass preamp.

As for the pop filter, I think I'll go with making my own just to save a little money. Since I'm doing this in the sanctity of my room, I don't care if I'm singing into a gigantic plastic asshole as long as it sounds good. I supposed I'd get some wierd looks for buying a pair of nylon stockings, but then I get them anyway for being the only teenage male in a 15 mile radius with long hair.

I think I'll go with the SM58, just because it's better all around rather than at one thing. Maybe I'll buy the SM57 too later on for just guitar and the 58 for vocals.

Thanks for the advice. Hopefully I'll get my hands on these new toys soon and will be able to get some nice recordings out there.

As for the post above mine, I refer you to Buddy Guy and Albert Washington.

 

[Lerastes]

I managed to squeeze a bit more out of my budget, so with a bit more money at my disposal, I refined my shopping list a bit to this.

[url=https://en.audiofanzine.com/dynamic-microphone/shure/sm58/user_reviews/]Shure SM58[/url]
Line6 Toneport
Marshall MG30DFX amp

I can suffer for a bit without Reaper, and since it's only $40, it wouldn't take long to get that too.

However, I do have a question for anyone that's used the Toneport. Right now, I don't have a noise gate pedal, but the Toneport claims to have the PODxt's effects, which has a noise gate. Would micing my amp with the Toneport and using the noise gate be effective?

 

[sbr223]

$350 is not a boatload but you can definately get a good start and have some fun.

I would start with this interface. Allows you to plug in a guitar or bass directly and use all kinds of software effects, or plug in a mic and sing or mic your guitar amp.
http://www.music123.com/Line-6-TonePort-UX1-USB-Audio-Interface-i250717.music

I would get a decent mic:
http://www.musiciansfriend.com/product/Shure-SM57-InstrumentVocal-Mic?sku=270102
http://www.musiciansfriend.com/product/Shure-SM58-Mic?sku=270101

If you never really plan to, or want to buy another mic, I would suggest the SM58 which is a great everything mic. If you think that this mic is the first in a large collection (which will eventually lead to you eating ramen noodles for weeks on end to save for mics that cost more than your car, followed by threads of divorce from your wife) then I would suggest the SM57 which for many, it THE go to mic for micing guitar cabs. Either mic will do a fine job on vocals and guitars, but I would suggest that the 57 is more of a guitar mic and the 58 more of a stage vocal mic.

Pick up a pop filter:
http://www.musiciansfriend.com/product/Nady-Pop-Filter?sku=421139
Depending on how cheap you are, you could also take an old nylon stocking, stretch it over a wire hanger then duct tape it to your mic stand. Depending on source nylon this could be a very pleasant or very offensive smelling device, but either way, it will be ugly.

And finally buy some software to do all of the recording:
http://www.reaper.fm

I suggest Reaper for a few reasons:
1. It supports recording and mixing with compressed file formats
2. You can try it before you buy it
3. It is very cost effective

I recently gave Reaper a try while trying to figure out if I should upgrade my Sonar or move to Cubase. After about a week I decided to buy it and mix my current project with it. So far I have been really pleased.

For your dream of assaulting the masses with jewelcases with your pictures on them, I am sure many will tell you that you need to spend more, but hey, you have the money you have. Make the most of it.

Regarding drum tone good news and bad news. There are loads of samples available. Most are shit. You can make them work, it just takes loads of time. My suggestion is to find someone on the internet into your type of music. Best way would be to use your crappy drum samples and get down all of the rest of the stuff sounding great, then post the song somewhere like the Collaboration page at womb.mixerman.net and see if anyone is interested in laying down drums for you. You could likely find someone looking to work on a project who has a drum room and would be into collaborating with you. If you do not like that idea, then get to work finding good drum sounds and find a way to make them work for you.

Regarding your dream guitar sound, head over to http://womb.mixerman.net and give a good listen to the Slipperman Recording Distorted Guitars From Hell stuff. Getting a great distorted tone is not a walk in the park, but an SM57 is a good place to start... after that it is up to you to get a good sound out of your amp. Your pedal, like the Toneport built in sounds will likely continue to produce mediorce sounds. There is a reason all the major albums you buy and listen too were recorded with killer amps in big studios with great engineers... it is because getting a killer guitar sound is not as easy as buying a pedal and plugging it in. You have to work it out the old fashioned way... Great Performance + Great Amp + SM57 + press record. Read up the stuff from Slipperman.

Remember, as you are working on all of this that the main source of your problems might be your listening environment... If you ever are mixing something that sounds totally killer in your bedroom but like total canned ass once you burn a CD that is a good indication that your mixing environment is lying to you. Bad news here. This cost money to fix. You can work around it, and plenty have, but be warned, the room you mix in and the speakers you mix on are pretty darn important. Again, you can do it anyway you want, even headphones, but it will be tough.

So, I think we are in your budget:
$130 Toneport
$100 SM57 or SM58
$ 25 Pop Filter
$ 40 Reaper
-----
$295 Total

Why I like this package is that as you move on and your home studio grows there are some items in there that you will not have to replace... I would guess you would own the pop filter, the SM57/58 and Reaper for a good long time. When it is time to upgrade you have a few choices...

Pick up some new monitors or buy some treatments for your mixing room
OR
Add a Mic (Maybe a LDC mic, or an SM7 or Beyer M88)
OR
Trade up on your interface (maybe an RME FF400 or some such thing)

There are millions of options that could be better or worst, more pricy or cheaper than mine, but it is all to taste. Having worked with all of the items above, I can vouch that they will work and you will be able to make pretty good recordings (given good songs and performances.)

Hope that helps.

Later

That was a very informative post. I've been thinking about starting to record using my computer and had no idea where to begin. Thanks alot!

 

[jdier]

I managed to squeeze a bit more out of my budget, so with a bit more money at my disposal, I refined my shopping list a bit to this.

[url=https://en.audiofanzine.com/dynamic-microphone/shure/sm58/user_reviews/]Shure SM58[/url]
Line6 Toneport
Marshall MG30DFX amp

I can suffer for a bit without Reaper, and since it's only $40, it wouldn't take long to get that too.

However, I do have a question for anyone that's used the Toneport. Right now, I don't have a noise gate pedal, but the Toneport claims to have the PODxt's effects, which has a noise gate. Would micing my amp with the Toneport and using the noise gate be effective?

You might be able to do that, but I would suggest using the ReaGate in Reaper. So, you record your stuff, then put ReaGate as the first FX in your channel. Or, you could just go through the part and edit out the noise (this is the method I prefer as it uses less CPU and I can get it exactly as I like it.) While Reapers editting functions have not been the easiest for me (personally) to understand and master, this is one situation where Reaper editing is really a breeze.

BTW, you can use Reaper for free. The only pain is that it pops up a window that says you have not paid and I think that window stays longer, the longer you used the software for free. Not too much of a pain given what you get. I ran reaper for about 2 weeks for free to see if I liked it, then I send in the $40 and the pop up never showed up again.