I am looking for advice regarding recording equipment for my band. We have a large rehearsal space that is well stocked with instruments. We also have many mics and cables, and a PA system. However the space is shared and I cannot set up the recording equipment permanently. It is thus important that our recording equipment doesn't take too long to set up and tear down. I have been looking at Zoom products like the H8 or Livetrak L8 but I'm not sure if there are other options that are more suitable. We would like to have a video component to our recordings as well. The group composes drums, bass, two guitars, electronic keyboard, and two vocalists singing in unison. Thanks.
newbie advice
- Thread starter MGS
- Start date
markmann
Active member
I guess part of it depends on what you are recording. I would use at least 8 on a drum set alone so 8 is pretty restrictive. I use a 16 track mixer that is also a recording interface and I use a DAW to record. I know that at least some DAW's have video capabilities as well so that would be my suggestion. I run my mic's to the mixer and one cord to the laptop. Done.
I say this a lot to bands...IF your musical abilities are good to great you should be putting out a good, well balanced sound. Usual problem areas are manic, raw meat eating drummers and star struck ego tripping gitists who MUST be as loud as F***!
So, if you are any good a decent hand held recorder back were the punters would sit should tell you all you need to know.
In any case, as Markman has said, to mic up and record the whole band will take a minimum of 12 mics plus some DI and you can't even begin to to THAT until you have the instruments setup! Start at 9am, bit o lunch and you might get a take or two in the can by tea time. (and I guarantee the first dozen tries will sound s**T!)
Sorreee!
Dave.
So, if you are any good a decent hand held recorder back were the punters would sit should tell you all you need to know.
In any case, as Markman has said, to mic up and record the whole band will take a minimum of 12 mics plus some DI and you can't even begin to to THAT until you have the instruments setup! Start at 9am, bit o lunch and you might get a take or two in the can by tea time. (and I guarantee the first dozen tries will sound s**T!)
Sorreee!
Dave.
TalismanRich
Well-known member
Tascam Model 24 would fit the bill pretty well. Similar to the LiveTrak from Zoom, it's set up like a typical PA mixer, but will record individual tracks to an SD card. 16 mic inputs should cover all your vocals, plus instruments.
You could set it up as the PA system, send the vocals to the speakers and just record all the rest of the stuff. All you need it either powered PA speakers or a nice QSC amp and a pair of passive speakers.
You could set it up as the PA system, send the vocals to the speakers and just record all the rest of the stuff. All you need it either powered PA speakers or a nice QSC amp and a pair of passive speakers.
It very much depends MGS on why you want to record the band? Many bands want to make a demo so they can hawk them round various venues trying to find work. More established working bands hand out (or sell!) CDs at gigs. Now, especially for the former purpose the venue's promoter will wnat to know what you sound like 10-20 mtrs away. Are you a tight, harmonious whole or a group of individuals battling to be heard? Remember, until the advent of the Beatles virtually all recordings were done with a very few microphones, often just a co-i pair and few spots or, in other cultures, a spaced pair plus fills. Indeed my son reminded me last night that George Martin recorded the Beatles first album Please Please Me in just that way. The band setup in the studio and GM captured the live sound.
I really think trying to multi-mic that band will take you forever to rig and the results be pretty poor because of instrument spill. IF you had a permanent site where you could leave the rig setup and work at the sound for hours/days? Fine. You don't.
Dave.
I really think trying to multi-mic that band will take you forever to rig and the results be pretty poor because of instrument spill. IF you had a permanent site where you could leave the rig setup and work at the sound for hours/days? Fine. You don't.
Dave.
Joseph Hanna
Active member
It's totally legit if a Laptop and DAW are a priority for you. I know it is for many, but it's certainly not gonna be any quicker tear-down than some of the hardware solution suggestions above. As TalismanRich mentioned the Tascam 24 is a beast. All front-end analog with luxurious analog eq. The sound alone (forget logistics) is worth considering. Heck, the eq alone is worth it being considered. For me, nothing digital will ever replace the tactile feel and sound of a good analog channel. There's just something organic in analog touch and response that doesn't happen, even with exceptional control surface solutions.
It can act as an old-school Tascam mixer in live/live-recording environments and, in a blink of an eye can become a DAW interface or, as an analog mixer with 24-channel digital feed from a DAW. The reverb is stellar and the transfer from the SD card is seamless. It might be worth just taking a peak at it. Sweetwater has a pretty good video of a live band recording demo. https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/Model24--tascam-model-24-mixer-interface-recorder
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Slouching Raymond
Well-known member
For making a video, I would just get a bunch of GoPro cameras, and set them of separately without worrying about timing.
The Tascam 24 looks to be very adequate for recording the audio.
Mix down the audio in your daw, to your satisfaction, to generate the final .wav fie.
Then you need to synch-up all the video tracks and the audio track, within some video editing software.
This will involve trial and error shifting down to single video frame level. It is not as dificult as it sounds.
When it is all lined up, you set about planning the camera cuts, and cut effects.
Et Voila!, you have your music video.
The Tascam 24 looks to be very adequate for recording the audio.
Mix down the audio in your daw, to your satisfaction, to generate the final .wav fie.
Then you need to synch-up all the video tracks and the audio track, within some video editing software.
This will involve trial and error shifting down to single video frame level. It is not as dificult as it sounds.
When it is all lined up, you set about planning the camera cuts, and cut effects.
Et Voila!, you have your music video.
TalismanRich
Well-known member
Another alternative to the Tascam would be the Soundcraft UI24R. The big difference between that and the Tascam is the use of a computer or tablet to control the channels. All controls would be digital as opposed to the knobs. It can be done over Wifi, so you could set things up on the stage and move out to the audience area and use a tablet to set up the mix. I have heard some people have issues with the internal wifi disconnecting. I remember someone here on HR going that route, and they were very happy with the operation. It can be set up in a rack mount, so the system can be pretty portable.
Soundcxraft UI24R
Soundcxraft UI24R
rob aylestone
Moderator
The audio side with competent people can actually be very quick once you establish the system. Like a live gig setup, you can set all the mics then tape up the cables so they live in a permanent loom with labels. Each musician is responsible for repeating the layout for their bit, helped by the bass and guitars who get theirs done in two minutes. You can buy Chinese sports cams that have very good pictures with knuckle joints that will mount them to mic boom stands. You can even get gimbal mounts for them for moving cameras. Don’t give cameras to wives and girlfriends, the results are always terrible. Problems are batteries and memory card management. The biggest issue is that they tend to be fixed or restricted frame rates making US folk happy and UK folk not so. 1080, or even 4K is fine but at 30fps. So edit at that spec and transcode the final file if you need different.
sync wise get the drummer to do two snare hits a few seconds apart before each take. Why? It’s a perfect sync point but these cameras sill occasionally drop a frame every now and then and one or more will be out of sync if you do takes more than 5-10 minutes long.lots of fixed cams and just a couple of moving* ones will work. After your first setup, you can be recording in maybe 15 mins after the music gear is in and working.
sync wise get the drummer to do two snare hits a few seconds apart before each take. Why? It’s a perfect sync point but these cameras sill occasionally drop a frame every now and then and one or more will be out of sync if you do takes more than 5-10 minutes long.lots of fixed cams and just a couple of moving* ones will work. After your first setup, you can be recording in maybe 15 mins after the music gear is in and working.
Joseph Hanna
Active member
But the big caveat here (and it's big) is the Tascam, at its heart, is an analog device. I do realize that we're firmly into a generation of audio folk that hasn't had a ton of experiences with analog channel strips but there is a tangible, palpable difference in sonics, touch, and reaction. Even further, analog eq is just on another sonic level vs digital eq and further there's a lot to be said that not being fixed to staring at a computer screen EQ visual changes (like it or not) how we hear. I wouldn't have an analog tape machine under any circumstance but a good analog mixer is a whole other world and, therein lies the biggest draw of the Model 24. Tascam consoles at the prosumer level always had a sonic footprint that people flocked to and these boards are no exception. I have a Model 16 (wish I had purchased the 24) at the heart of my personal DAW rig and wouldn't swap it for anything (except a move up to the 24). I'm absolutely sure the Soundcraft is a formidable solution, as is all of their stuff, and may well be a better fit for the OP but, for case in point and to clarify, the Model 24's 'ace in the hole" is first and foremost it's analog.
TalismanRich
Well-known member
JH, I agree that being able to just grab a knob and adjust things is really handy, especially in a live situation. Flipping through screens would be a bit of a clunky means of working to me, but I know of a couple of people who have no issue working that way. One has a QSC TouchMix16 (another possibility), and he's got everything set up for their stage show, including starting points for volumes. They just plug the right mics into the right channels, plug in the PA stacks, fire things up and they are ready to roll. If they need to do any adjustments, they pull out their I-pad. No need to walk across the stage to do anything. Walk out to the middle of the audience area and check the mix, adjust on the fly. He said it is really simple, Who am I to say otherwise?
I think the key is going to be having the right number of channels available.
The best part of this whole thread is that there are so many choices.
I think the key is going to be having the right number of channels available.
The best part of this whole thread is that there are so many choices.
Joseph Hanna
Active member
Agreed!
LazerBeakShiek
Rad Racing Team
What is the cheapest camera that has a external mic input?
Man, I hear you. Some knobs in a rack. Laptop and DAW, is what they use now. Live by me, for the fall pet parade/ Fire Prevention week run, the entertainment had a minimum of equipment. They had arrays with sub cabinets on bottom, to a PA box. Bass and Guitars had foot controllers that went to PA. No classic amps or Marshall cabinets anywhere to be seen. The PA had like 6000 watts class D power, although it didn't seem that loud to me..
Foot controllers..that was it.
What you need to pull it off, has seriously been reduced.
rob aylestone
Moderator
The sports cam type things dont do quality audio - so no real point in them having anything other than basic audio. I guess adding even a 3.5mm socket would be difficult, size wise.