New to all this, rented some gear, now what to buy?

[obihann]

Hi Guys,

So to start off I really don't know very much about recording, and what I want to do is just record some jam sessions of my band, not record flawless albums or anything like that. So here goes.

We have a bass player (me!), guitar/backup vocals, singer, and drums (electric). We also have somebody who occasionally plays rhythm guitar. To mess around we rented this two speaker system with a built in mixer, so we could run an ipod into it and listen to the song before we try it, and also so we can boost the drums and actually hear the vocals.

We are now talking about buying some gear, including a mic or two, and a mixer. The mixer is what I really want to buy, so this is where I get lost. I already have "some" gear to help recording, macbook (garage band) and a m-audio mobile pre. It is my understanding if I buy a normal mixer (maybe a 12 channel behringer) than the only way I can record that is to run a line out from the mixer into the mobile-pre, and this means I will have a single track recording... Correct? Now, if I buy a USB mixer (alsis or behringer maybe?) every track on that mixer will show up in garage band (and the mobile-pre isn't needed).. Correct?

Now, assuming I have all this correct, my next question is about what mixer is worth getting. If my understanding is correct, I ideally want a USB mixer so when we do record it gives us more options, however I don't want to spend very much $$. So after digging around I think I found what I want, the Behringer Xenyx 1204 USB. 12 channels, USB out, and under $200 locally. However after reading about some of the behringer mixers with USB, I am confused because some of them don't seem to allow multi track in garage band...

Sorry for the long post, just trying to get some facts straight

 

[Hood]

I would prioritize: Monitors(as good as you possible can get) audio interface, then mics. you will probably always start with drums/bass -> guitar-> synth/w.e. Im a newbie myself but that is what I would suggest you. Good luck. hope you get more replies.

 

[stevieb]

From my read of your post, I think I see some misconceptions, there. Let me suggest:

It is my understanding if I buy a normal mixer (maybe a 12 channel behringer) than the only way I can record that is to run a line out from the mixer into the mobile-pre, and this means I will have a single track recording...
I am not familiar with the mobile-pre, but if it has one channel and is the only interface you have to input analog signals into your computer, you will be limited to a single recorded track, but it is the M-audio device that is limiting you, not your mixer. If you have a 2-channel interface, like a Tascam US-122 or -144, you would be able to record to your computer in two tracks- stereo mix, presumably. Such a device would allow you to run from the mixer's 2-channel out ("Control room" or "Tape record") to the interface.

USB-equipped devices can only record in two channels (if I am wrong, I am sure someone will jump on that with both feet! ) but for your needs, that should be all you need, as you say you are only recording jams for your own listening. You need a FireWire mixer to send more than two channels to a computer. From your post, this is not the way you want to go- too expensive and too much complexity for your needs. "KISS." (Keep it simple, stupid!)

Either way, ALL channels going into the mixer can be recorded, you will just have only two different tracks. You basically run EVERYTHING to the mixer, even things like your electric guitar, then mix it down to two tracks, and record that.

Personally, I would split up the mixer and interface jobs, getting a 12- or 16-channel mixer and a 2-channel interface like the US144 ( I only mention the TASCAM because I know of it, without having to research- there are others.) This entry-level gear is not very robust, so if you have both features in one box and it breaks, you are back to square 1. Splitting it up also allows you to upgrade one part without having to replace the other, too.

we rented this two speaker system with a built in mixer, so we could run an ipod into it and listen to the song before we try it, and also so we can boost the drums and actually hear the vocals.
Well, a worthwhile experiment, but you can BUY a 4-channel 80-watt PA for about $200, sometimes with a cheap mic thrown in. You might want to go a bit up-market from that entry level PA, but my point is, stop renting and buy something. You will be money ahead after about a month or two. Frankly, as you "already" have a mixer (the one you bought for recording,) don't buy a mixer/amp type PA- buy a separate power amp and a small rack to put it in (or build your own.) Some folks like powered speakers, but I don't- again, if one part fails, you are out both.

If you drummer goes with an acoustic kit, you may find you don't need to "boost the drums" anymore. This may actually result in some savings on the PA, as you can buy a smaller PA amp, smaller speakers, and smaller mixer, although a decent kit may cost you more than you save. But, hey, the costs get shifted to the drummer, away from the band (or whomever pays for the PA.)

 

[grimtraveller]

"KISS." (Keep it simple, stupid!)

If Obihan was the king, you'd say "keep it simple, Sire...."

Instead of a mixer, I think that an interface is really what you are after. The problem with a mixer is precisely that ~ it mixes. That is, it mixes however many inputs you put into it but you don't get the same number of outputs, unless it's one that has that. What alot of computer recorders here do is use an interface {anything from 1 to 8 inputs} and DAW, which you already have {Garage band ~ although you might want to look at something like Reaper}. Not saying a mixer is no good {I use one but in a different way}, they can be, but for what you want to do, the interface route is more cost effective and more importantly, offers you so much more scope as you grow and develop from recording jams {and I stake the Queen's good money that you'll do both}.

 

[obihann]

Wow, great feedback, thanks guys. A few of you suggested a interface instead of a mixer, I should mention (I thought I did), that I have a M-Audio Mobile Pre, which is a nice little 2 channel USB interface.

Now, it was said that a USB mixer (even a 12 channel) will only show up as 2 channels on the computer? Does this mean that with a 12 channel USB mixer, only the first 2 channels will show up in garage band? Or does this mean that tracks 1-6 will show up as 1 channel in garage band, and tracks 7-12 will show up as channel 2? I'm very confused on this...

It was suggested to get a normal mixer, and run that into a two channel interface. Can I have some more details on this? Since I already have a 2 channel interface, how do I do this?

Also, thanks to the guy that suggested how to prioritize buying gear. For a while we are going to be renting monitors, we can rent for dirt cheap, and it works for us. It may be a bit backwards how we are buying things but, we are doing it with the cheapest stuff first.

Thanks again!

 

[gecko zzed]

Typically, a USB mixer allows only a single two channel output. You can sometimes choose from where the output will come from, e.g. the mixer's main mix or maybe subgroup mix. What you put into that mix is up to you. If you use the main mix, then whatever the faders and pans are doing on your 12 channels will be reflected in the output. If you hard pan channels 1 to 6 to the left and hard pan channels 7 - 12 in the right, then 1-6 will show up on channel 1 and 7-12 will show up in channel 2.

The limitation is the interface (whether a built-in USB interface on the mixer or a separate unit). If you want to record many tracks simultaneously, then you need an interface that can do this.

 

[mewsician2]

If you're just recording your rehearsals, (we do it every time we rehearse) you can use a mixer, and plug it into your interface for a suedo stereo recording, and it'll tell you whether you sound the way you want or not, the trick there, is to get a everything mixed well before you hit record in Garage Band.

I use Sony Soundforge, record just the stereo input that has all our voices, instruments, including electronic drums, (rehearsal only), and we can tell what it all sounds like just fine, that said, we do multitrack also, for instance when we record a demo or something, but that's a whole nuther ball game.

Good luck.