New to ADAt.. Tape question

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traveen

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Hi all,

I finally decide to be only 15 years behind and bought an old Blackface ADAT.
It came with some new tape, but only two of them. What new tape should I buy. I'm thinking the two I have will not be enough.

Also, what I a fair price on another blackface, seems I got mine cheaper than what I see on Ebay and need to know if I got a good deal or Ebay is whacked. My guess is a little of both. I'd like to get another one too and want to know what I should be paying.

16 tracks is a dream for me.

Thanks for any replies
 
A single tape will give you about 42 minutes of 8 track recording, make regular backup copies (and even copies of b'ups), as the machine will almost certainly one day eat a tape and ruin it. You'll need one more unit of course to make backups.

Adats are getting harder to put a price tag on, but I would say $50/75 ~ $100 is about right. Anything more is getting a bit silly, I would think.

I was recommended a particular brand of Maxell tape (FG240, I think it was, it's been a while), and they were very, very reliable tapes, as well as not being at all expensive. I used Sony Pro, Maxell Black, the original Alesis Adat tape, a few other 'deluxe' tapes, all of which eventually got crunched. Certainly use S-VHS tapes anyway, as I think they have a smoother mechanism, tho' I might be corrected on that aspect.

The build quality and feel of an old Blackface is great, and makes the HD24 feel plasticky in comparison (as fantasticas the HD is). Amazing that the two adats I have are still up and running.

Waiting for the two machines to sync up WILL drive you nuts eventually, I assure you!

BstRds,
Robin
 
Thanks for the info Robin.

I got a good deal on mine then and ebay is whacked. They're asking $185+ for these things with over 1000 hours.

I do have an old FD-8 that can actually serve as a backup (Fostex licensed the ADAT and have optical hookups) but I was hoping to get another blackface some day. I have the BRC so all I need is another unit.

Can the XT (the silver ones that use tape too) be used with blackfaces?
 
just as a test i had used regular vhs tape with my blackface and it worked fine. I ended up trading it for an Lx 20 and found 4 adat tapes for 20 bucks on craigslist. Check there periodically.. I've seen them pop up a few times.
 
You can use a XT with a blackface but the XT will have to be the master as the FF & RW is much faster, and the blackface will have to work to catch up. The blackface records data in mirror image on the tape, re-inverting on playback. The XT doesn't. If you pair up a blackface and XT, you'd have to keep tapes separate for each machine.

If you want to run a pair of ADATs, stick to the same generation for each; 2 blackfaces, 2 XT's, 2 XT20's. Find another blackface, sync them and record something. A blackface with 1100 hrs isn't necessarily a lot. It all depends on how it was treated and serviced.

You can format regular VHS tapes in a ADAT but don't; use S-VHS or ADAT tapes. Buy online; tapes.com, tapestockonline.com have plenty of stock. I've found that Maxell, TDK, Fuji S-VHS tapes work great. I wouldn't use a Quantegy tape.
 
eh91311 said:
You can use a XT with a blackface but the XT will have to be the master as the FF & RW is much faster, and the blackface will have to work to catch up. The blackface records data in mirror image on the tape, re-inverting on playback. The XT doesn't. If you pair up a blackface and XT, you'd have to keep tapes separate for each machine.

If you want to run a pair of ADATs, stick to the same generation for each; 2 blackfaces, 2 XT's, 2 XT20's. Find another blackface, sync them and record something. A blackface with 1100 hrs isn't necessarily a lot. It all depends on how it was treated and serviced.

You can format regular VHS tapes in a ADAT but don't; use S-VHS or ADAT tapes. Buy online; tapes.com, tapestockonline.com have plenty of stock. I've found that Maxell, TDK, Fuji S-VHS tapes work great. I wouldn't use a Quantegy tape.
Click to expand...

Good advice. Can the excellent BRC be used with XT machines? If not, I'd stay with Blackfaces (x2) to keep the BRC option open. It's well worth having one of those.
 
There is still alot of tape out there, stick with the SVHS. BTW, I am quite happy with my old Blackfaces and BRC. Granted I have not used alot of the newer stuff. Hey, I still mix to DAT. Boldly one step behind....
 
robin watson said:
Good advice. Can the excellent BRC be used with XT machines? If not, I'd stay with Blackfaces (x2) to keep the BRC option open. It's well worth having one of those.
Click to expand...

XT models have more locator options built in, compared to the blackface unit, but all work well with the BRC. Having a BRC is always a plus.

Perception of the sound quality of the different vintages of ADAT vary. Some people prefer the 20 bit models, some don't mind the original. You have to try them and see what you prefer. At the current used pricing, ADATs are great.
There is something liberating about not being tied to a computer to record music.
 
Back up, back up and back up again!!!

I lost eight tracks of vocal and instruments from a 24-track ADAT session because of a tape being left near a magnetic source. 'Twas the real guts of an entire album project, which I was in the middle of importing to Pro Tools. All I have now is bits and pieces of back-up vox and drum tracks. Engineer told me it was backed up. It was not...

As soon as it happened I imported all of my other ADAT tracks to Pro Tools where it is now backed up on several hard drives. You just never know when you're going to lose a tape, (or even a hard drive) for any reason. BACK IT UP!

Maybe I'm just old school from all my years of 2" reel to reel on the 24-track Otari but I still swear by Ampex tape, SVHS only.

I like my old black face ADAT, but it doesn't get much use anymore. Mostly just for importing projects that were developed on ADAT.


-K
 
S-VHS tape inventory

There are still supplies of S-VHS tape out there, but tape stock is starting to become harder to find. If you're using ADATs, it's better to stock up and create your own inventory. Also, invest in a ADAT-to-computer-interface backup system, and transfer your ADAT tape data to a hard disk (or two).
 
I still own & occ'snly use ADAT's (2-LX's; 1 XT) primarily for 2-track mixdowns & tracking/mixing experimentation, etc.
As far as tapes are concerned, SAM ASH/NYC still carries BASF 20-bit masters (DA-60) & Quantegy's DM60. Regardless of the hrs, if U properly care for your Blackface (or any other used ADAT), it will provide U with satisfactory results. Your ADAT "CARE KIT" should include:

1)-3M ASD HD Digital Audio Head Cleaning cassette; good for 20 cleanings.
(when error codes related to audio perf appear; such as the dreaded " * " this comes in handy)

2)-If you're brave & confident enough to remove cover and perform manual cleaning, use, AND ONLY USE, CHEMTRONICS HEAD CLEANER II.
This kit comes with a clear fluid cleaner (containing no alcohol) for optical heads (readers & scanners) and hi-end A/V sytems. In addition, 4 unique soft &l int free, PADDED "q-tips" come with the kit specificall designed for cleaning ADAT heads. (ITW ELECTRONICS, KENNESAW GA. with instructions).

3)Never, EVER use VHS tapes, or even S-VHS tapes that are designed for BOTH A/V use; AUDIO ONLY ADAT (digital-16/20/24 bit 40-48khz) format tapes. Also, keep in mind that a ADAT tape formatted & recorded in a lower bit-rate in an older model ADAT then used in a upgraded model will yield a somewhat weak perf and may cause errors.

4) Reiterating what others have said earlier, BACK 'DA EFF UP your ADAT tracks or mixdowns; Unless U treat your ADAT(s) like your own flesh & blood (ck my replies, posts, threads on ADATS from 6-7yrs ago..I treated them like my own children), these machines can & will piss U off if operated like some cheap, Radio Shack cassette recorder. For example, if in play/rec mode & u need to go back to review, don't press rewind 1ST; press stop then hit the locate # (you'll notice the "CAL BRAC" warning indicating you don't give a eff about this machine). ADAT's have thier limitations, but used correctly, it will accomplish what U seek.

ADATS are simple & easy to use. Limited to 8 tracks (no virtuals) & requiring
maintenance periodically along with it's some-time finicky nature, ADAT's can either piss U off or show U a lotta' luv! Except for 1 chewed up tape (which I repaired) on my oldest ADAT (LX ; 9 1/2 yrs runnin') which I thoro'ly cleaned, these machines give me no prob whatsoever. And tho' I use them infrequently, I'll never giv' 'em up. They're like having a land-line phone in a world of cellulars! :)
 
eh91311 said:
You can use a XT with a blackface but the XT will have to be the master as the FF & RW is much faster, and the blackface will have to work to catch up.
Click to expand...

On the contrary - the slower machine should be the Master, to avoid it starting playback before the Slave can catch up. Excellent advice otherwise.
 
blackfaces as master with XT's

I've only used an XT as a master with other blackfaces once. I didn't have a problem with the XT starting playback before the blackfaces fully sync'd up but, whatever works best is correct.

I think that it's best not to mix adat machine generations in multiple setups.
 
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