new thread about my vocal problems

  • Thread starter Thread starter B.SABBATH
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B.SABBATH

B.SABBATH

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hey guys,

your advice has been greatly appreciated in the past.. I am trying to nail this vocal problem.. Every time I put up a song people say 'raise the vocals' etc.. I am not comfortable with them being too loud, but I put them louder than EVER on this mix..:D

Is this a good level for vocals? :confused:



thanks again if you bother.. :cool:


'riches to rags' www.nowhereradio.com/samij/singles
 
The vocal level might make you cringe but, I say it now has the loudness in the mix that it deserves. You boosted the solo git as well, no?

Keep putting the vox up like this in your mixes. You'll get used to it:)

peace,

Theron.
 
thanks theron, that's exactly what I was hoping to hear! :D

your the first ears to hear it.. they really sound dreadfully loud to me! :D I also took your advice and raised the solos! thanks

I am intonating my guitar right now for our collab.. I'll be talking to you shortly..

late
sam
 
Hey Sami...
....As far as the levels of the vocs are concerned, I like this much better. I noticed that you like to go for kind of a bullhorn effect on some of the leads. I think that is cool, but that might be what is bothering you because the mids are so boosted. Try farting around with softening the mid freq. so that it sits in the mix a little more. It wont stick out quite as abrasively that way. Its nice to be able to hear you.... Your voice fits the style you are laying down really well.......cool:cool: Mike
 
Thats it!The vocals are sitting well now.Those are some cool harmonies and backing vocal tracks sam!
 
Sam,

I like the "sing song" vocal style in this song.:)

The problem I hear, though, is this. You're going for a midrange canned vocal effect, but since the rest of the mix is all very midrange heavy as well you leave little room for the vocals- so it still sounds too cramped and 'honky' to me. Here's what I would do:

1. Boost the low end (about +2dB) and scoop out the mids (about -2dB) just a bit. I think you're shooting for a midrange heavy "sound", but your bass and kick could stand more foundation. Better to approach this first by adjusting individual track levels, then if needed, individual track eq's. Only if all else fails should you use a HIGH QUALITY eq on the entire mix.

2. Bring the cymbals up in the mix and extend their tails. The cymbals will add more shimmer, but since they're non harmonic and percussive they shouldn't ruin that midrange feel you're going for. You can extend the tails by adding long decay, long predelay reverb to the cymbal track.(s).

3. Mix the guitars, keyboards, and backing vocals to one stereo bus with a filter set to the same center frequency and bandwidth you used for the lead vocals. Ride this filter and cut a bit (maybe -3dB?) whenever the lead vocals are present.

Nice job.:D

barefoot
 
Wow, that's more Sam than I've heard yet. My god turn those vocals DOWN!!!


JUST KIDDING! Actually, I like everything but the drum levels on this mix. I couldn't tell you what's causing what, but the drums just don't have the required presence as I'm hearing it. ummm...balls...ya that's the word.

Other than that, the vox sound great to me. I dig the song itself too. And no, the vox didn't ruin it by any means.

What else is Sammy gonna do with his new tool?.....
 
Sam,

As always I'm left speechless after listening to one of your songs. Great all around! I really like your vocal style and the choice of harmonies is perfect. Damn brother do you Autotune those or are you just pitch-perfect??

Great guitar sounds, something I always strive for and listen for as well.

I do agree with some of the others about the midrange issues...is this the same song as the "instrumental" thread? I think so; it definitely benefits from vocals.

Cheers
Rick
http://www.sittinidol.com
 
Now ya got it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!;)!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

perfect with the leads too....they need to match the vocals...which they now do. Now the subtle vocals work really well...

I'd smack ya on the back, but you're too far away.
 
OK, now im just being evil it seems... The vocals sound a bit to quiet to me... Sure they are meant to be subtle, especially the "speaky" part. But, compared to the rythm instruments, the synth and the distorted guitar it seems a bit buried. Is it just me?
 
It's so cool and close I hate to even criticize! I certainly don't think the vox are too loud. I do think there's a SLIGHT bit of competition for the middle of the mix (as far as panning). I might try widening the stereo field of some of the instruments or repanning some slightly to make some room in the middle for vox. Particularly the pad string "thingy". If you get some space in the middle, you might actually be able to bring the vox back down slightly which will have the effect of giving the drums more meat too. This is being very picky though. Great stuff!!!!!!
 
Guernica - You know what's strange is I didnt use any e.q. at all on the vocals.. just grabbed a preset from this digitech vocal processor and sent it through the Blue Max compressor and that was it.... You said it sticks out 'abrasively' and I agree.. I dont understand why there is so much mids when I didnt add any..:confused: You got a good vocal sound or your last tune.. I'll have to look through the 'Parasite' thread and see what you used.. thanks G..



Kramer - thanks man! :cool:




barefoot - I appreciate the extended tips.. I am jotting down the e.q. you mentioned.. That's cool that you mentioned exact frequencies.. There are somethings I cant do though.. The drums are a 2 track stereo mix.. I cant mess with the cymbals themselves without messing with the whole drum sound.. I really wasnt shooting for a mid range heavy sound and I'm not sure how that happened. I used no. e.q. on the mix or the vocals.. As far as "stereo bus with a filter set to the same center frequency and bandwith," I have no idea what that means but I will experiment..:D thanks a lot for being detailed.... you know your stuff..I will try to apply what you said in your reply! :D



SLuiCe -LoL! :D you scared me there for a second.. I have to work on the mix a bit more but I'm starting to get sick of this tune already.. I think I will need a break from it soon.. Yeah this is more Sam then I'm really comfortable with! :D i think when I start to learn how to use an e.q. better, I wont have to put the vocals so loud.... they really are very loud..... any new tunes on the way bro? thanks



Sittin Idol - it's cool to hear from ya! You know how much I dug your tunes!... I dont know how to explain the midrangey sound.. I didnt add any.. I'm still trying to get it down but this place has become a crucial part of the recording process for me.. I can listen to some of the great sounding stuff here, like yours, and it helps me just by hearing it.. thanks man.. Sittin Idol kicks ass! :D I'll check your page to see if theres any new tunes..



mixmkr - coming from you, that's a great response! :D You know, I really could use a smack in the head....errr i mean back! :D I was wondering if theres a way to have someone else mix the tunes and see how it would come out.. I dont know.. the vocals are awfully loud to me man.. thanks mix! :D



P Hallin - the vocals sound a bit quiet to you? :D You really are evil if you think they should be any louder! :D thanks for checkin it out dude..




MONTE - thanks for the feedback man.. I am going to try and remix it.. I do hear what your saying.. Maybe it's more of a panning thing.. I will keep your tips in mind trying to better it.. thanks



--------------------------from the other thread-----------------

Triple M
Sky Blue Lou
heylow
Riku
gbav

thanks a lot for the feedback guys, it is/was really appreciated! :cool:

------------------------------------------------------------------------



thanks again for bothering if you did! :cool: :)




late
sam
 
Now you're got the right balance of vocals and other instruments, and it sounds great. I agree, that there's too much midranges in the vocals, at least in the heavy parts. I didn't detect that in the quieter moments. The song sounds well balanced as far as volume levels go.
 
Damn Sab..........you are the King of Creation. I'm tellin' you, it amazes me how you come up with so many truly different pieces, one after another. that's just too cool.

I agree with everyone that the vocals are where they ought to be volumewise. They're definately not too loud. As for the mid-rangy tone, well I tend to like stuff that's done for effect so if that was your intent they sound cool but they do not have a very natural tone. kinda like that megaphone vocal thing I did that everyone hated. The harmonies were cool too BTW.

I've got some stuff for you to play drums on coming your way in about a week....I'll e-mail you with the details.
 
B.SABBATH said:
....The drums are a 2 track stereo mix.. I cant mess with the cymbals themselves without messing with the whole drum sound....
Click to expand...
You could try adding individual cymbal sounds over top of the drum track.
B.SABBATH said:
....As far as "stereo bus with a filter set to the same center frequency and bandwith," I have no idea what that means but I will experiment..:D
Click to expand...
I'm a firm believer in "a picture is worth a thousand words" so I've attached a diagram to help illustrate. By "stereo bus" I mean you mix the guitars, keyboards, and backing vocals all down to one stereo channel, or save just those parts as a single stereo track which you're then going to mix back together with the lead vocals as well as the bass and drums.

In my diagram the yellow line represents the frequency spectrum of the guitars/keyboards/backing vocals mix and the blue line represents the frequency spectrum of the lead vocals (that digitech preset actually is, at least in part, an eq which emphasizes the midrange). The green line is the resultant spectrum when you mix the two together - yellow and blue makes green.:D The green is the end product so that's the one you worry about the most.

The top diagram illustrates what you basically have now - a bunch of midrange instruments added to a very midrange heavy vocal resulting in a mix with an even bigger, honkier midrange peak in the middle.

The bottom diagram illustrates what I've suggested that you do. When the lead vocals are present you use a filter to scoop out some of the mid section of the guitars/keyboards/backing vocals mix which corresponds to the spectrum of the lead vocals. The resultant mix then has a flat spectrum.

You can bring up the lows and highs when you mix in the bass, drums and maybe some added cymbals.

Make sense?

barefoot
 

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Sam, I've been a little late in responding cause this board keeps denying me access (too many users logged in our something to that affect). But I agree with the resounding comments here. Now we can hear you! And it sounds great.
 
Hey Sami,
......great illustration by barefoot. That might very well be it. Here's some more options: I dont know anything about the d. vocal processor you have, and im sure youve been through all of the presets.... but on this song, were all of the presets that you tried kind of mid heavy? Does the unit have an eq on it, and have you experimented with the mid levels on it? How about gain?...just curious.
Regarding EQ, I have a naturally midrangy voice so I have to take some off at around 1k. Of course this varies depending on my mic chain, but I find that by doing this my voice tends to "sit" better. Here's what i would try: Bring up the mixer EQ on your vocal channel, and turn the mids all of the way down. Notice where the harshest tones seem to disappear the most as you adjust the mid freq. Then turn the mids all of the way up, and this time notice where the harsher tones seem to be most apparent. This will help you find what you need to cut. Im sorry, if im being redundant......just thinking out loud.:D
G
 
Pretty damn cool song there, samij. Haven't heard anything like it before. Sounds as professionally arranged/written/performed (to my lousy ears) as anything on alt radio.


Chad
 
Sam,

Really great to hear your vocals out there!

You know,Iv'e been listening to you a long time, your production writing and mixing skills have gotten so good,perfect in fact,that with your vocals sounding so great you have to face facts.

Your a pro dude!:D

There's a lot of pro's that couldn't do it half as good!

Really great.

Best to you,
Pete
 
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