New Song - The Oddest Sea

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robgreen

robgreen

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Ok, just uploaded a new tune. Still a relative newcomer to sharing, so please go easy. Would love to get some comments/feedback/suggestions on the tune, recording and mixing etc. as it is currently. Thanks

The Oddest Sea

The Oddest Sea v2


ModNote: Added a link to rev2
 
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Hey, it sounds cool, but I couldn't help but feel like I was waiting the whole time for the "hi-fi" part of the song to kick in. Hopefully that makes sense... I may not be getting the style/genre you are going for, so take it with a grain of salt, but I'd love to hear it kick in sometime in the first third of the song with better sound quality drums, bass, etc. You could break it back down again to the low-fi soundscape type feel at the end, and that would provide a nice contrast I think. As it is, I just felt like I was waiting for that type of transition to happen. Just one guy's opinion though... :)

Best Regards,

Dave DeWhitt
SoundClick artist: Dave DeWhitt - page with MP3 music downloads
 
Thanks a lot for listening Dave, and thanks for your comments. I guess in response to the points you raise, there are two elements; the first that stylistically my musical tastes tend to veer towards more lo-fi/indie music (the likes of Sparklehorse, Bon Iver, Pavement etc.), so I like to incorporate that in my output.

The second on the other hand, is in regard to my current limitations in personal ability and equipment - and this is where suggestions from people like yourself are particularly useful. I'm still trying to improve in terms of playing/writing/vocals, incrementally improving my setup as wages permit and still learning how to maximise my recording/mixing. In other words, the whole song has a lo-fi feel to it, because that's all I can produce currently ;)

I'm pleased with the soundscape nature of the song, and think the timings are fairly tight, but even allowing for my personal lo-fi preference, I would like to add a little more polish if possible. The drums are midi programmed beat by painstaking beat, and the bass could maybe be tighter, though I'm not much of a bass player - but with regard to the rest, is producing a more hi-fi mix a question of better mixing, better playing, better equipment (my soundcard is in desperate need of an upgrade) or all three? Open question to anyone.

Thanks
Rob
 
This is an excellent song, performance and arrangement wise, imho.......I really like the atmosphere you are trying to create and the sound youre aiming for...


The vocal clips at the beginning works very well but Id automate their panning more, Id also automate the reverb and maybe a stereo imager so that you can move them around the soundscape both back and forth as well...this could be used on the atmospheric pad you have running through the song...this begs to be swirling around my head..Id even give the vocals some movement...I dont think they have to be anchored anywhere, or at least not all the time...you know one line fading off to a side as the next comes in from the other side??


I think the drums need more treatment...the kick is a little lost...trying banding their EQ to give them individual space and compress the snare and kick more..bring them up in volume too

I dont think this has a lo-fi sound, I just think it needs more work on the mix...as it stands though its really good anyway


good job
 
Thanks very much folks for the comments/feedback, really encouraging and very useful. I think both Dave & Stephen have a valid point about the dynamics - played against two of your well mixed songs, mine could do with a bit of a lift in that respect.

I've a feeling the setup is at least partly responsible. I'm still on an old soundblaster soundcard, though currently getting hold of an EMU 0404, so hopefully that will improve the live instrument recording quality. The rest of the setup is via a Yamaha 4-track which is plugged directly into the soundcard (with cables that have no right being anywhere near any kind of music recording). It's all then recorded and mixed using Ableton on my PC. There's probably enough weak links there to account for some of the shortcomings in dynamics!

Kcearl - some great feedback from you too, thanks! I like your suggestions about the stereo imager, bringing more swirling into the mix and movement in the vocals. Good call on the drums - the kick sample I used was a bit harsh, so I softened it, but currently too much I think. I'll get a second mix done incorporating the feedback from here and re-post when done. Great stuff :)
 
I hate commenting on folks arrangement so Im glad if the ideas seem good...I dont think your chain has that much to do with it Rob...I think they may effect the way you are hearing your music while mixing it but I think you just lack the experience to get a bigger more polished sound...
I bet you could do all of this inside the box and the soundblaster and yamaha wouldnt have anything to do with it....

My first 6 months or so of mixes sounded similar...just much thinner than others...I found mixing audio by Roey Izhaki a good read and helped loads but mostly its just practise...if you cant get much further with this mix move on to your next song...you can always come back to it when your skills improve, and they will with every mix, we all improve

hope that doesnt sound rude or presumptuous..
 
I think the intro is a bit long. The background sort of covers up the vocals. Bring the vocals up a bunch - I want to hear the words. The singing is good so don't be afraid to show it off. The vocals are all bunched in the middle. The ending is also long. Maybe next song, break it into pieces music, words, music words, etc...this has a lot of good stuff in it - so the arrangement is total personal preference. I'd bring up the vocals though,,,,,
 
I like the song, and I think the vibe is cool. My suggestions would be to boost the bottom end of the mix and bring the vocals up a bit. I think you're trying to make the vocals kind of part of the vibe which is all good, but a touch louder so the lyric are little easier to hear would be good in my opinion.

Really good, though, just as it is. Thanks for sharing.

J
 
Thanks all for the comments, they've been extremely helpful. Working on a second mix at the moment with some of the suggestions incorporated and it's already sounding better I think. Will post up when I've completed.

jjjtttggg said:
I like the song, and I think the vibe is cool. My suggestions would be to boost the bottom end of the mix and bring the vocals up a bit. I think you're trying to make the vocals kind of part of the vibe which is all good, but a touch louder so the lyric are little easier to hear would be good in my opinion.

Really good, though, just as it is. Thanks for sharing.

J
Click to expand...

Thanks for listening jtg(x3) - I think you're bang on. The bassline has become lost in the mix somewhere around the lower mid frequencies. I've given it a bit of a tweak and the bottom end is sounding much healthier already. I think it should address some of earlier comments about dynamics.

ido1957 said:
I think the intro is a bit long. The background sort of covers up the vocals. Bring the vocals up a bunch - I want to hear the words. The singing is good so don't be afraid to show it off. The vocals are all bunched in the middle. The ending is also long. Maybe next song, break it into pieces music, words, music words, etc...this has a lot of good stuff in it - so the arrangement is total personal preference. I'd bring up the vocals though,,,,,
Click to expand...

Thanks for your comments too ido1957 and encouragement on the vocals. I'm giving them a good boost on the second mix. Vocals being too low has been a recurrent theme in comments to music I've made, so I think it's time to finally lift them out a little. I guess it's a safety mechanism for not being entirely comfortable hearing your own voice/lyrics - like on tv makeover shows where they finally encourage the fat lady cast off her beloved sweatpants and hoodie ;)

With the arrangement itself, I didn't want to be tied into so much of a traditional structure - I just wanted the vocals to make up one part of the song rather than driving the entire melody.

kcearl said:
I hate commenting on folks arrangement so Im glad if the ideas seem good...I dont think your chain has that much to do with it Rob...I think they may effect the way you are hearing your music while mixing it but I think you just lack the experience to get a bigger more polished sound...
I bet you could do all of this inside the box and the soundblaster and yamaha wouldnt have anything to do with it....

My first 6 months or so of mixes sounded similar...just much thinner than others...I found mixing audio by Roey Izhaki a good read and helped loads but mostly its just practise...if you cant get much further with this mix move on to your next song...you can always come back to it when your skills improve, and they will with every mix, we all improve

hope that doesnt sound rude or presumptuous..
Click to expand...

Not rude or presumptuous at all kcearl, I'm looking to improve and you've given me some great feedback both for this song and generally. As I said earlier, the bass tweaking has fattened the sound quite nicely, but the pre-rendered version I have on Ableton also sounds a lot more balanced. I'd done the mixdown at 44.1/16, so that I could burn to cd, but I think I need to look into whether it's adversely hit the mix quality and adjust it.

Thanks for the book recommendation too - I've been looking for something a little more advanced than Dummies Guide to... and that looks perfect. Cheers :D
 
The Oddest Sea - cute Homar. That's a joke son.

When I saw the wave form on SoundCloud I never would have guessed it was such a minimalist type of tune. I couldn't understand a word. Is there anything about a journey in there?

I like the tune because it is different from the usual stuff I hear. It has a nice vibe.
 
Manslick said:
The Oddest Sea - cute Homar. That's a joke son.

When I saw the wave form on SoundCloud I never would have guessed it was such a minimalist type of tune. I couldn't understand a word. Is there anything about a journey in there?

I like the tune because it is different from the usual stuff I hear. It has a nice vibe.
Click to expand...

Hey, thanks for listening and for your kind words Manslick - it is indeed a play on words as you suggested, well spotted.

It's the story of someone who's trying to escape, but he's not entirely sure what from - so he takes steps to try and conceal anything that could be construed as incriminating. I was thinking about how technology has enabled us to be under surveillance and watched more than ever before, and how just the possibility of this affects people's behaviour. The person in the song is completely paranoid even though there's no real indication of whether there's any justification for his fears or not. I wanted to leave it unresolved in that respect.

I always liked the story of The Trial by Kafka where the man is put on trial without any idea of what crime he has supposedly committed, and wanted to take the idea one step further where the person is not sure whether they are even on trial or not. Hopefully this doesn't sound too pretentious!
 
robgreen said:
Hey, thanks for listening and for your kind words Manslick - it is indeed a play on words as you suggested, well spotted.

It's the story of someone who's trying to escape, but he's not entirely sure what from - so he takes steps to try and conceal anything that could be construed as incriminating. I was thinking about how technology has enabled us to be under surveillance and watched more than ever before, and how just the possibility of this affects people's behaviour. The person in the song is completely paranoid even though there's no real indication of whether there's any justification for his fears or not. I wanted to leave it unresolved in that respect.

I always liked the story of The Trial by Kafka where the man is put on trial without any idea of what crime he has supposedly committed, and wanted to take the idea one step further where the person is not sure whether they are even on trial or not. Hopefully this doesn't sound too pretentious!
Click to expand...

Pretentious? Sounds like a Twilight Zone episode. You a Hitchcock fan? Ever seen The Wrong Man? True story though not very Kafkaesque.

But seriously though. You might consider making your voice a bit more audible.
 
I've not seen the Wrong Man, but I have watched a few Hitchcock's including North by Northwest which seems to deal with similarish themes. I wanted it to have a noir-ish feel, so I guess there's something of your Twilight Zone link there.

Boosted vocals, along with a few other tweaks are coming in v2 of the mix

I'll have a listen to the tune you posted recently when I'm not in work.
 
Yeah those two films deal with mistaken identity; something I’ve wanted to explore in a song.

Don’t fret reciprocity.
 
Right then, I've spent a fair bit of time working on improving the song I posted a couple of weeks ago, based on the helpful feedback I got. Nothing substantive has been altered in the arrangement, but in terms of the mix I've:

1. Brought up the vocals a little - they still sit in rather than above the mix, as I think that suits the song - but I think they're a bit clearer now.
2. Working on the drums, compressing the kick and snare and trying to give each area its own space
3. Mixing down in 24 rather than 16 Bit
4. Improving the low end and mixing of the bass line
5. Generally working on the dynamics of the song and thinking about how each track contributes to the final mix. I think I've managed to get a richer sound and addressed some of the thinness from previously.

I like kcearl's suggestions re. the vocals floating around and the ambient parts swirling round the mix, but I think this may be an idea to re-visit in the future as I think it could take a while to build in.

I've left the initial mix up for the time being and it's in the original post, but here's the link to v2:
The Oddest Sea v2

Any comments/feedback on the updated version would be great. Thanks
 
Hi Rob,

The new mix sounds better to me, they are subtle improvements, but they all add up and it just works better I think. I'm glad Keith and a few others chimed in above with those comments and suggestions, I think putting them into practice really helped. I'm also glad that the changes you made were subtle and not too over the top. Sometimes I tend to be too heavy handed when I'm trying to change or correct something...that isn't the case with what you've done here.

Nice work!

Dave
SoundClick artist: Dave DeWhitt - page with MP3 music downloads
 
yeah this is very good...an excellent song, I like how from the intro it could go anywhere..has a very british sound about it with hints of psychedelia...vocals are much clearer....I heard one or two pitchy moments but they dont detract from the song

not sure what Id change in the mix..I think what you hear here is a mix that hasnt been masted yet..I think mastering would bring it up a notch

good work rob...oh one thing, when you do a remix its best to stick an extra link in the first post in case new listeners critique the wrong track
 
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