New Song, (Benjamin) Please offer suggestions

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dudleys100

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OK this one was done around the same time as Liberty ,the last one I posted, but was never really completed. I had this rough draft done and then it got erased off of my computer (long story). So within the next couple months we are re-recording it. This is where all of you come in. This one has a lot of imperfections that I am aware of. Now I have the chance to fix everything and do it right. If you notice anything that could be improved or fixed (recording wise, or songwise) please let me know. Thanks. Ken

It's called "Benjamin"

http://www.nowhereradio.com/artists/album.php?aid=2039&alid=388
 
Really good song.The Violins are a little overbearing when they come in.They take center stage away from the vocal when they should be complimenting it.Know what I mean?

Yeah,the violins are too loud.Your vocal is drowned out after the violins come in from that point on......the vocal is sitting well until that point.....I think the violins could come down just a notch IMHO.

Can someone else confirm that the violins are too loud?

The violins seem to have a lot of mid range to them that is stealing space from the vocal.

I really like the song.Nice melody.
 
What a great voice.

The strings are definitely hot.

I don't do this too much, but listen to the one I've got now and tell me if you like those levels. If so, I'll share some EQ "secrets", lol.

Mostly, I want you to listen b/c I'm pretty sure you're gonna' be famous in about 6 months, LOL.

Turn the strings down, or suck the mids out of the violins.
 
Oh yeah...and I sincerely hate you with a passion that rages intensely ... not unlike 1,000 nuclear bombs.
 
If you notice anything that could be improved or fixed (recording wise, or songwise) please let me know. Thanks. Ken

Songwise, I think it lacks movement.
Without a bridge or key change or something to let it travel a little and come back home, it seems to drag on a bit. Being almost a five munute song kind of exaggerates that same point.

Overall I think you're great, I listened to your other tune also.

Joe
 
Thanks for the comments, I agree fully. i am not sure what to do about the manotony of the song yet (one big flaw there is that it has the exact same drum beat throughout). I do want to shorten it also, it will take a bit of work. This is the last one we will be working on but if I have time I will revamp it. Thanks. Ken
 
dudleys100 said:
i am not sure what to do about the manotony of the song yet (one big flaw there is that it has the exact same drum beat throughout).

more or different percussion could help.......maybe some real drums kicking in after a while........

great singing.........good song
 
Are you using one of your new vocal mics on this? the highs sound pretty smooth on the home stereo compared to the last one.

percussion is a little repetetive. i agree with having a drumset kick in during the humpty dumpty part and building that up a bit.

i like your voice. i like your music. you've now got your own folder in my mp3 collection. man are you going places......at least on my hard drive :) actually i like your last song so much i'm compiling a video of of my kid with it as the background music.

thanks for that!

later.

oh, and by the way. you outbid me for the discrete drums so i'm interested to hear something from you with them as the backdrop.

actually, i'm just interested to hear anything from you.

good work.
 
I am using the C-1 with this vocal also. The difference is 1) I am singing softer and quiter, and 2) I was singing under a blanket. The crappy guitar track was done with a 57.

I am very flattered that you would do a video of your son with my song as the backdrop. I also will enjoy the place of "stardom" on your hard drive :)

I will be getting the discrete drums either this weekend or early next week. I will try the idea of the drum set coming out of the break in the song, i think if done right this would add a lot of variety to it. I will post the finnished product within the next few months. I should ahve about 4 more coming in the next few months as we are going to be recording a lot.

If anyone has any good ideas about how they set up loops or samples (ie discrete drums) in Sonar please let me know as I have never done this.

Thanks for the comments.
 
dudleys100 said:
If anyone has any good ideas about how they set up loops or samples (ie discrete drums) in Sonar please let me know as I have never done this.

[/B]

it's about the easiest thing you can do in Sonar.

1. open loop explorer.
2. select the clip you want.
3. drag it into the audio track and snap it to the spot you want it to play.
4. if it's not already acidized (if it's just a .wav file) right click and select 'enable groove clip looping' this will lock it to the tempo and pitch of your project.

that's it! no need for acid or any third party product.

have fun. it's addictive.
 
erichenryus said:
it's about the easiest thing you can do in Sonar.

1. open loop explorer.
2. select the clip you want.
3. drag it into the audio track and snap it to the spot you want it to play.
4. if it's not already acidized (if it's just a .wav file) right click and select 'enable groove clip looping' this will lock it to the tempo and pitch of your project.

that's it! no need for acid or any third party product.

have fun. it's addictive.


it's interesting that this is the C1 also, but you payed more attention to using it the right way. i was going to suggest in your last tune that you might just be blowing too loud too close. singing with a condensor takes a lot of practice (i'm still not good at it). seems you gotta really get to know when your vibrating that diaphram just right. almost like you're tuning your vocal chords with the mic's diaphram.

anyway it sounds much better than the last song.
 
erichenryus

Thanks for the comments again. Now what if I want to take single hits of drums and create my own beat or pattern, how can I do that in Sonar?
 
I applaud your arrangement, singing, playing, and choice of instruments. I agree with the Apocolyptic Doctors about the strings being a little meaty. They lean out on ya a little too much. The voc`s were heavily subdued and blanketed, I feel like they should be really clear, pristine, and soar over the accompaniment. Since you chose the percussion, which I like a lot, a triangle hidden back there somewhere, and a agogo occasionaly would be spice. I like tambourines used sparingly too.. hehehe Ok I shut the hell up.. I really liked the movement and the message.
Ken
 
Toki987 said:
I agree with the Apocolyptic Doctors about the strings being a little meaty.
Ken

Actually thats not a bad name for a band..hmmm...I was in a band called the Groove Doctors back in the 80's...there's a ton of bands by that name now....hmm.....Apocolyptic Doctors........it's working.:D
 
Kramer said:
Actually thats not a bad name for a band..hmmm...I was in a band called the Groove Doctors back in the 80's...there's a ton of bands by that name now....hmm.....Apocolyptic Doctors........it's working.:D

Doctor, is that gerbil in your pocket? :D
 
dudleys100 said:
erichenryus

Thanks for the comments again. Now what if I want to take single hits of drums and create my own beat or pattern, how can I do that in Sonar?

two ways i know to do that in sonar 2 xl without spending any extra money.

use the dr008 drum sampler or use cyclone. the dr008 is a bit more intense but more oriented towards drums whereas cyclone is more for loops but can be used for the purpose with very little effort.
 
I'm assuming you've heard of Jars of Clay... since both this song and your last sound a lot like the stuff on their first album. I mean that as a compliment, of course.


This one is good. I agree that the strings are a bit loud... and quite frankly, there's nothing wrong with a monotonous drum beat as long as there's plenty of other stuff going on... (yeah.. can you believe that I drummer just said that.. :p) I didn't find it horribly repetitive or anything... I thought it coulda been shortened a little maybe, or given a change-up here and there. But otherwise, it was fine... and the strings really make the recording... I wish I could put that stuff in all my junk. :p


Once again... it's a darn shame you don't live around here... :p I would surely have snatched you up years ago. :) Great voice. And the performance on this one is a little tighter than the last. (mainly because the drums are more solid in this one).


If I can ask, where do you record all this stuff at? Your house? A studio?


WATYF
 
Thanks for the help erichenryus

WATYF thanks for the comparison. I love Jars of Clay especially their first album. I didn’t realize how much similarity I had with them until I listened to their album again last summer. Benjamin has a similar beginning to “Worlds Apart”. I would say they have been a very direct influence on my music in a very indirect way. My other songs drift from this though, some of them by a long shot and some only somewhat. The main thing that connects them is that I use a lot of the same open chording. When I first started learning guitar I picked up their first albums guitar book. So a lot of chords I learned and liked came from that beginning.

Everything we record has been done in my small apartment. The violins are done in the small living room that is big enough to hold a chair and loveseat snuggly. Djembe in the kitchen, And everything else is done in a tiny bedroom that is big enough to hold two single beds snuggly. Living room acoustics are OK, but the bedroom has some terrible reflections that I have to be careful of so they don’t trash my tracks.

I have seriously debated taking all my gear down to the university for a day to record. We have the “Barrus Concert Hall” here. It is one of the top acoustic rooms for symphony’s in the world. We practice there a lot. There are a lot of acoustics there so it would be hard to tame them if I needed though, but it is very tempting.
 
Man you have a great voice. Good song and good recording. I won't bring up the strings ;).

Very nice work.
 
I agree you have a great voice. However i have some personal critiques about the recording. In my opinion the guitar sounds thin, not full or warm enough, almost to where its unatural sounding. I dont like a very boomy guitar sound but i believe it should be full especially without a bass in there.

The vocals are very warm, but sound very distant. It sets well with just the guitars on the side but when you get cello and drum in there, it starts to sound like the singers behind everything. I think it should be the opposite. The cello and drum sound infront of the vocals. The violin at times also sounds strange, almost like a chorus or a phasing type thing going on. Makes them sound almost synthesised. Thats about all i can hear as far as mixing goes. Of course this might be your style and this might be what you were looking for, i dont know. But thats what im hearing based on my opinion.

The playing is very good, and i can tell good instruments were also used in this. it has a pretty nice shear sound too it that makes things fit well, but it doesnt really feel up the room with sound in my opinion.

The last comment i have to make deals with pretty much the entire mix, but especially the vocals. It sounds very blah and monotone. This really calls for more dynamic variety, and i say again, especially in the vocals. I dont know if its just because of how you played it, or if your totally squashing it all with a compressor. The vocals sound very squashed and pretty much lifeless. But my guess is this is the only way you could get it come through clear since it sound more distant and lacks presence. Im guessing you used your Dragonfly on the vocals, i can tell by the warmth.

I just noticed something else about the vocals while i was listening. I hear a distinct distortion in around the 2k-4k area. And this isnt just in the sibilance of the speech but it sounds more like a distortion. Can anyone else hear this? Did yah do some eq boost before the heavy compression?

Of course this is just my opinion. I think this would work really well, exept everything is kinda mono and sounds basically distant. You need to have something filling the room up. Maybe more present vocals and guitars. Doing that will also make the strings and drum part sound more like the rythm instead of the lead.

BTW. i like the reverb you have on there, its not in your face and it nice round and warm.

Anyway, thats my 2 cents. BTW come check out my studio sometime Dudley, im planning on doing some major work this saturday so come in sometime before or after.

oh yah, and if your still planning on getting rid of you C1, let me take it off your hands, i dont understand why ou would want to get rid of it.

danny
 
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