New quality cheap pre-amp!!

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Beezoboy

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Ok I am mulling the idea of a new preamp to compliment my RNP. I was searching around Gearslutz when I cam across a thread called "In the market for cheap pre-amps."

http://gearslutz.com/board/showthread.php3?s=&threadid=10074

Anyway, I read it and it suggested that the Rane MS-1b is a sweet preamp. Roger Nichols, a 7 time grammy winner apparently (did a search on yahoo), said that he and a friend did a pre shootout and that the Rane came in 1st or 2nd on everything from tenor sax to snare drum. It was up against Manley, Avalon, and GML pres.

Here is the link to the post at Mr. Nichols' forum.

http://www.ioforums.net/forums/view_topic.php?id=15&forum_id=5

This pre is supposed to be rather transparent, but quality. Just thought I would let you all know. BTW, I am not affiliated with any of the parties mentioned other than being a member at Gearslutz.

Beez
 
The Rane preamp have been discussed in earlier posts and generally blessed. They have a pretty sweet vocal strip with compression and de-esser too.
 
Thanks for the heads up Beezoboy. If you pick one up, let me know how it stands up against your Rnp.
I've been looking into getting an RNP but buying gear is out of the question at the moment (I am saving up to move out of here).
 
hey Beez,

I was looking for a single pre for my snare drum. at the moment my GR ME-1NV is on kick and for main vox, bass, I use the RNP for drum overs, stereo apps. and many other things.

I was going to try and get 4 more channels of clean pre's to start cleaning up my drum pre's (using mackie 1202, art pro mpa, dbx 376 at the moment) would like to start getting rid of all those dirty tube pre's for drums (they're my old leftovers that i throw on drums)...I wouldnt mind 2 more RNP's, or a sytek, but I wonder for the price, how 4 Ranes or even 2 DMP3's would do compared to our RNPs?
 
Mine sounds great on accoustic guitar tracks.


They really are good mic pres for the money.
 
Yeah. . . I am supposed to have some student loan money coming, so I was thinking about getting a Vintech 1272. I may get a Sytek though if I don't get as much money as I think I am getting.

These pres are definately interesting sounding. If I find a deal on E-bay I might get one. I just am looking for colored pres at the moment. Just trying yo give a heads up though.

Beez
 
hey chess...

have you or anyone else compared the rane ms-1b to the vtb-1 (on the solid state side)? i was thinking about getting another vtb-1, but this thread caught my attention, and i might go check out the rane, since they are in a comparable price range.
there seem to be some folks on this forum who don't like the vtb-1 , but i've gotten nothing but really good sound out of the solid state side, and find use for the starved plate tube from time to time on certain dynamic mics. any thoughts?
thanks - jv
 
Well . . . let's see . . . Roger Nichol's seems to think it holds it's own against Manley and Avalon. I like mine. What do you think?
 
no need to be glib, chess

although useful, i tend to take glowing industry reviews with a little bit of a grain of salt, and always like to hear opinions from everyday folk as well. the vtb-1 has gotten some glowing reviews as well, with similar praise like:

"I've heard through the grapevine from some trusted industry sources that the VTB-1 recently took a little run with an Avalon 737 and didn't exactly lose the race." -digital pro audio

as i said, i take this kind of stuff as useful, but was hoping maybe you had a few words on the subject. i somehow was under the impression that you owned both pre amps (maybe i'm wrong), so i thought you might have some specific advice concerning how each one performed on different sources.
your answer came off like i bothered you, and was a bit condescending. i'm sorry you thought it was a stupid question. i'll know better next time.
peace- jv
 
Nothing personal. I'm just a sarcastic kind of guy . . . and whenever possible, I try to help people simplify things rather than over-analyze them. Besides, if I was REALLY being a smartass, I probably would have refered to you as "Captain Obvious" or something. :D :D

But yea, in fact, I had a vtb-1 for a litte while after it first came out, and I liked it. I just didn't think it really offered anything that I didn't already have -- nor did I think it was anything particularly special. Just a good pre at an okay price. I'd still reccomend it -- if only for the variable impedence feature alone.

The Rane MS-1B is a very simple design based around an instrument amp, so the IC is going to have a lot to do with the preamp's sound and performance. One of the big reasons you see people speaking highly of the Rane and the M-audio DMP3 is because they both use the Burr-Brown (Texas Instruments) INA163 . . . which also happens to be the same as that of the Grace Design.

Obviously, that's not the only reason, but it's going to be a major factor. The 163 is a breakthrough instrument amp (or more accurately, the INA103 before it) that has an added advantage over a lot of the others before it -- specifically those previously made by Linear Technologies (In fact, their SSM 2017 used to be in almost every budget pre made). The added advantage seems to be that it is much easier and less-expensive to make it sound good. In fact, I've heard that it's hard to make it sound bad. And the real kicker is that they seem to perform surprizingly well, even when using less-than-adequate power supplies . . . and even when cheap capacitors are used.

Disclaimer: This is all a very over-generalized explanation, so please, don't anyone take me too literally on this.
 
thanks chess...

i really do appreciate your taking the time to pass along the info. that's exactly what i was looking for. sorry if my skin runs a little thin sometimes when i get on this board, but everyone seemed on edge a bit lately. it seems to have settled down nicely, and it's a great place to learn.
as it turns out, i've decided to save my starving artist pennies and get a grace pre. the grace brothers are friend of mine, and maybe they'll let me have a scratch and dent for cheap:). it's really great to see their products held in high regard. i remember when they were building the first prototypes in the backroom of the studio we all did a bunch of recording in. i had no interest in doing my own engineering back then, or i could have learned a bunch.
thanks again for lending your experience around here. you and others have been invaluable in answering questions. i, in turn, will try to pass on any experience i have, that may help out.
peace - jv
 
Re: thanks chess...

johneeeveee said:
the grace brothers are friend of mine, and maybe they'll let me have a scratch and dent for cheap:).
Click to expand...

Jeez, man. Don't you think I deserve a little something for my help? :D :D he he. Let me know if you can get a hold of any extras. You should invite them to come post here in the rack forum sometime.
 
hey chess,

... i was sort of kidding about the scratch and dent idea (although i may ask them). although they are really making a name for themselves, it's not like they're rolling in dough or anything. they definitely can't give away their product, even to a friend.
i know both michael and ebon (grace), but ebon is the one who is a close friend. i will ask him if he'd like to post a thread here, but i want to make sure it isn't taken in the wrong light (as some sort of advertisement for grace designs). these guys are both class acts, and ebon is a great guy who also happens to be a fantastic guitarist who toured with dan bern for years. it would be nice to have him contribute, but i just want to make sure it's a good idea. any input on this is welcome.
thanks - jv
 
Dan Kennedy (Great River) posts from time to time.


It's all in how you go about it. If someone comes with the idea in mind of pimping their product, then one or two of us might take exception. :D If they come to answer questions (not necessarily related to their product) and just basically talk gear, then they're usually welcomed with open arms.
 
thanks again, chess,

... ebon is not the kind of guy who would ever do that sort of thing. they are both very straight-up guys. i only asked due to the possible sensitivity over recent squabbling that has gone on here. i'm sure you understand.
i'll talk to ebon and see if he is game. if i'm not mistaken, the namm show is coming up, so he will probably be out of town and busy for a bit. i will see what's up and let you all know.
peace - jv
 
Finally used my VTB-1

I finally used my new VTB-1 this past weekend. I must say that for the money I was surprized by the presence it gave me with a couple of mics I tried on it. I tried a V67g and the SP B-1. It made my vox cut through my mixes a lot better than my DM24 internal pres. I also ran my Bass through the DI but I didnt care for that as much. My internal pres sound a lot better with the Bass. I may have had some artifacts running through the channel of my mixer though. I will retest the Bass DI later.

I had been reading how you could crank the gain without any noise. I couldnt really crank the gain on the VTB-1 that much without it getting distorted. I probably had my mixer too hot, but I will also tweak that out this week or so and retest again.

But overall,, I was impressed. So much that I went ahead and ordered a V69. I like the V67 so I figured the V69 should be right were I want to be at with the Vox.

I can only imagine what a Avalon or something would sound like.
I really did not care for the SP B-1 at first, but through the VTB-1, it soundsw pretty good. Pretty neutral sounding I guess.

Malcolm
 
hey malcolm,

... i agree, the vtb-1 doesn't really do a very good job as a DI. i don't do much direct recording, so it doesn't bother me, and i find the vtb-1 does a nice job with dynamic mics, which i use a lot. i have used it with a few mid level condensors (tlm 103, at 4050), but for unexplainable reasons, the mic that it seems to work the best with is my $50 oktava mk 319... go figure. a cheap pre that likes cheap mics.
peace - jv
 
Re: hey malcolm,

johneeeveee said:
... i agree, the vtb-1 doesn't really do a very good job as a DI. i don't do much direct recording, so it doesn't bother me, and i find the vtb-1 does a nice job with dynamic mics, which i use a lot. i have used it with a few mid level condensors (tlm 103, at 4050), but for unexplainable reasons, the mic that it seems to work the best with is my $50 oktava mk 319... go figure. a cheap pre that likes cheap mics.
peace - jv
Click to expand...


Yeah, It gave my bass sor of a ringing sound to it. I havent played with the toob on it yet tho. I cant wait to try thr V69 on it. I am pleased with what im getting out of a micpre thats costs so little. I would have got the DMP3 but I figured since I will only need 1 channel for now that I would go ahead and see what SP was working with. I guess now I will go ahead and order the rack mount from Alan. I also just read the manual online and I think I have it set with the wrong setting in the back. I think I have it set for 50 instead of 200. That may be why it distorts so quick when I turn up the gains.

Malcolm
 
Hmmm, what do you mean by the setting on the back? Our VTB-1 sounded pretty good, but distorted sometimes. I don't know whether it really WAS too high a gain or a problem.
 
Re: Re: hey malcolm,

malcolm123 said:
I think I have it set for 50 instead of 200. That may be why it distorts so quick when I turn up the gains.

Malcolm
Click to expand...

You definitely want it at 200 (unless of course you have a 50ohm mic). Also, be careful about the VTB1 meter switch. It's possible to think you're metering input, when in fact it's the output you're looking at. This can lead to adding too much gain.

What I do (not the only way I'm sure) is to set the meter switch on INPUT and leave it there. I then add gain so the peaks hit in the yellow LED on the meter (as suggested by SP). With my trim all the way down on my recorder, I then use the output of the VTB1 to set the proper mic/line level as determined by the recorder's peak and LCD meters.

Unless your unit is defective, then the gain on the VTB1 should be noise-free (apart from the self-noise of the mic, or guitar, etc). Even with the tube dialed in, you shouldn't be hearing noise from the VTB1. On mine, the sound gets "thicker" after the 12:00 position on the tube dial, but this is a fairly subtle effect.
 
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