New Partner (Palace Music/Will Oldham cover)

[robgreen]

I needed a break from agonising over arrangements and levels on an original, so thought I'd take on an old favourite song. I'm too lazy to learn to play anything properly, so it does deviate a little from the original.

I also had a cold about a month back and though it all cleared up, I'm not sure whether it's still coming through on the vocal a touch? Anyway, it's only a cover so maybe it doesn't matter that much.

I've always thought the lyrics to this song were great. In particular,

The sun's fading faster, we're ready to go
There's a skirt in the bedroom that's pleasantly low
And the loons on the moor, the fish in the flow
My friends, my friends still will whisper hello



Hope you like
Rob

 

[dobro]

Yeah, your voice is coldy, but attractively so.

Vocal EQ: When my vocals sound like this, it's cuz I've slightly overdone it on the EQ, either cutting too much of the lows or hyping too much of the highs.

Guitars: I'd be EQ cutting something here, probably low mids.

You know something, you do the same thing with this one that I do with tons of my own stuff, and it's starting to piss me off in my stuff, so I'll mention it here. I call it 'the everpresent guitar backing'. Sometimes it can seem it's droning on and on. I've even written a note to myself and pasted it up that goes 'put more spaces into the guitar part'. Listen to the way how everything opens up and sounds better at 2.07 when the guitar stops that interminable strumming. On this one you did here, it might be as simple as changing up the strumming pattern to leave a break at the end of each measure: one and two and three and four... one and two and three and four... It'd be a snap to redo this part and experiment. Whatcha think? I mean, part of it's the EQ on the guitar, and part of it's the level, and part of it's the constant strumming. Whatcha think?

Actually, I like the tune and the way you did it. lol Sorry if I come across all nitpicky. Aiming for excellence, etc.

 

[robgreen]

Nah, not nitpicky at all - I'd always rather have constructive criticism if it strikes someone that something could be better, so thanks dobro

On the vocal, yeah I think the upper-mid boost may be a little high so I'll look at that. Most parts are grouped around the lower mids, so I think I could have over-compensated a little.

On the guitar, I think that's always the challenge to when you're strumming with an electric - you get less control of the dynamics than with an acoustic. Unless I'm particularly after a quicker attack type lead, I hardly ever play with a pick to try and mitigate this a bit. I think it produces a more responsive sound, but maybe still relentless. I'll have a think about that and maybe experiment around it a little - I'm not sure whether I'll get chance again this week, but I'll bear that in mind next time I can set all my stuff up.

In terms of overall feel, I wanted to go for a bit of a live sound - so the arrangement's quite simple, there's not a huge amount of panning work and the harmonies are a bit loose. I wanted everything else to just support the melody rather than stand out in its own right. I'm glad it kinda works, but I'll bear in mind your thoughts about variety to the strumming. Thanks man.

 

[robgreen]

Ok, made a few small changes to the mix to try and make it all sit better. Nothing huge, but I think it addresses a couple of issues dobro picked up on and a couple I noticed too. Same link.

 

[rayc]

Sounds lovely.
Nice selection for a cover.
Holes in the arrangement is hard thing to remember.
Could do with a little de essing but not much.
I'm a bit sensitive to that set of freqs lately - dagnabbit!
Cool stuff.

 

[JimmyS1969]

I'm not sure if it is on purpose, but I hit the 'mono' button and it sounds almost identical to the what I assume is a stereo mix.

I am a big fan of creating space in a mix. Would love to hear this a bit wider. I really like the tune, but it just comes across as well, mono. This may be what you are going for, and that is cool too.

 

[Btyre2013]

I'm not sure if it is on purpose, but I hit the 'mono' button and it sounds almost identical to the what I assume is a stereo mix.

I am a big fan of creating space in a mix. Would love to hear this a bit wider. I really like the tune, but it just comes across as well, mono. This may be what you are going for, and that is cool too.

+1 I tried it too and agree, it needs more width and that would also give it more depth.

 

[robgreen]

Sounds lovely.
Nice selection for a cover.
Holes in the arrangement is hard thing to remember.
Could do with a little de essing but not much.
I'm a bit sensitive to that set of freqs lately - dagnabbit!
Cool stuff.

Cool, thanks a lot ray. Glad you like the choice - he's done it a number of different ways himself over the years and I think it's a song that lends itself well to reinterpretations.

Yeah, I'd noticed that it was a little 'essy' in spots too - particularly noticeable one of the verses. There's a de-esser on there already, but maybe I need to do an eq band sweep to find the problem frequency and see if a cut there would help. Cheers man

I'm not sure if it is on purpose, but I hit the 'mono' button and it sounds almost identical to the what I assume is a stereo mix.

I am a big fan of creating space in a mix. Would love to hear this a bit wider. I really like the tune, but it just comes across as well, mono. This may be what you are going for, and that is cool too.

Thanks for listening and the kind words about the tune Jimmy. Yeah, as I posted above I'd deliberately kept the stereo field quite narrow to give it a bit more of a live feel. Maybe I've set an unnecessary restriction on myself there though to the detriment of the tune. I'll have a mess around with some width and see whether the space improves things. Thanks for your thoughts

+1 I tried it too and agree, it needs more width and that would also give it more depth.

Another vote for more width. Thanks for your thoughts too btyre - I'll see what I can do with that regard.

Good to see someone else from Manc on here too

 

[TripleM]

It is a nice song.

Drums are a little repetitive.

Not sure what sound you were going for on the guitars. But they're a bit muffled and lo-fi sounding. It kind of sounds cool in this mix, so that might be what you want. But they're missing some high midrange and low end.

I think the vocals are getting covered just a bit. Not bad, but they could be just a bit easier to hear (at least in certain spots).

Harmony vocal parts could be a little tighter in spots, unless (again) that's what you were going for.

 

[robgreen]

It is a nice song.

Drums are a little repetitive.

Not sure what sound you were going for on the guitars. But they're a bit muffled and lo-fi sounding. It kind of sounds cool in this mix, so that might be what you want. But they're missing some high midrange and low end.

I think the vocals are getting covered just a bit. Not bad, but they could be just a bit easier to hear (at least in certain spots).

Harmony vocal parts could be a little tighter in spots, unless (again) that's what you were going for.

Thanks a lot trip. I think the guitars are pretty close to what I had in mind - warm and a little bit lo-fi-ish (kind of similar to the guitars on this Bon Iver tune I guess)

Again, with the harmonies I was happy to keep them pretty loose to try and give it a more live, spontaneous feel. They were all just one takes and whatever came out went down. Hopefully not too much to the detriment of the sound...

I agree that the drums are a bit basic (to say the least) - wasn't sure whether they would do or not as they're not really the focus of the song. I'll see if I can do anything with them.

I've tried to make a few tweaks based on yours and all the other mix suggestions (though I've not re-tracked anything) - I think it all maybe sits a little better and has a little bit more width. Tried to look at anywhere the vocals were masked and removed some sibilance. Same link again.

 

[dewhitt]

This sounds great to me. Reading the other comments, I'm assuming that I listened to a new mix with more spacing, because this sounds nicely spread out and things are sitting in different spaces. Very nice!

 

[JimmyS1969]

I wish that you would have left the original version for comparison for others to hear..

I must say that I would not have made the comments I did with this version. Sounds good man!

 

[rayc]

The latest mix is really good.
Is the ss at 0.55 for effect or did the reverb/delay throw it out there?
No matter really as it sounds really good.

 

[robgreen]

This sounds great to me. Reading the other comments, I'm assuming that I listened to a new mix with more spacing, because this sounds nicely spread out and things are sitting in different spaces. Very nice!

Thanks a lot Dave - yeah, the clinic ears were really helpful in picking up that it was all a bit narrow, so I updated it with that in mind. Glad it works for you, cheers man

The latest mix is really good.
Is the ss at 0.55 for effect or did the reverb/delay throw it out there?
No matter really as it sounds really good.

Cool, thanks for listening again ray. Sibilance has been a bit of a battle on this mix (not sure why, maybe a bit closer mic-ing than usual or something?). I already had a de-esser there, but after your initial comments I made a cut at around 3kHz to tame the t's and one at around 5kHz to tame the ess's. Seems to have helped - though the ss at 0.55 was thrown out by loose timing from one of the backing vocal lines. I'll give that a quick snip. Thanks for your ears

I wish that you would have left the original version for comparison for others to hear..

I must say that I would not have made the comments I did with this version. Sounds good man!

Heh heh, I try and keep a tidy house on soundcloud. The last thing on earth I want to do is make you feel a fool though jimmy, so here are the first and last versions of the mix in case anyone's interested:

New Partner 18th Jan Mix

New Partner 24th Jan Mix

Thanks a lot for your thoughts and kind words jimmy. I'd have repped you if I could, but you're all maxed out for me currently

 

[dobro]

Yeah, I don't know what you did, but I like this one better. I'm not noticing anything. That's good news.

Nice tune. My favorite bit's how you deliver 'you'll haunt me you'll haunt me till I pay for what I've done'. Nothing is ever perfect, but this suggests perfection. Nice.

 

[robgreen]

Yeah, I don't know what you did, but I like this one better. I'm not noticing anything. That's good news.

Nice tune. My favorite bit's how you deliver 'you'll haunt me you'll haunt me till I pay for what I've done'. Nothing is ever perfect, but this suggests perfection. Nice.

Excellent, that's all good to hear - thanks dobro. In terms of what I did - it's a ton of endless tweaking that probably doesn't amount to anything noticeable but I agree makes it all work better.

Thinking about the main things - EQ cuts to de-ess the vocals, rolling back of delay and saturation on the main vocal, EQ tweaks on the backing vocals, and widening the stereo field throughout. I think the 320kbps mp3 sounds a bit fuller than the soundcloud link too - soundcloud's a convenient player, but to my ears it does lose some of the warmth and depth in the coding.

 

[heatmiser]

Wow rob. This sounds really good. I've listened to parts of it the last week through the computer speakers, but I always got interrupted or something. Listening now very loud through phones and it sounds great. The lead vocal track in particular has a really nice sense of space. Just the right amount of delay. I don't know the tune, but this recording sounds like it could be one of your songs.

You've always had this sort of mellow, restrained sound to your mixes. It used to frustrate me that there were no piercing highs or booming lows , but you've perfected this sounds where there's both better separation and more depth, and now I've really warmed up to it. The bass sounds nice, the mellow drums are cool, and the background vocals sound good (I think maybe those were just a tad too loud and/or dry for me?)

Anyway, it's a super mellow tune, and the performance and mix compliment it well I think. Nice work.

 

[robgreen]

Wow rob. This sounds really good. I've listened to parts of it the last week through the computer speakers, but I always got interrupted or something. Listening now very loud through phones and it sounds great. The lead vocal track in particular has a really nice sense of space. Just the right amount of delay. I don't know the tune, but this recording sounds like it could be one of your songs.

You've always had this sort of mellow, restrained sound to your mixes. It used to frustrate me that there were no piercing highs or booming lows , but you've perfected this sounds where there's both better separation and more depth, and now I've really warmed up to it. The bass sounds nice, the mellow drums are cool, and the background vocals sound good (I think maybe those were just a tad too loud and/or dry for me?)

Anyway, it's a super mellow tune, and the performance and mix compliment it well I think. Nice work.

Hey, thanks a lot for listening Pete and for the compliments about it.

I think I'd like to try some piercing highs and booming lows some time, but I guess I'm not really sure how to go about doing those elements. As ever, your physical and technological limitations are as much a determinant of your personal sound as your tastes and abilities are. My setup and playing abilities are pretty basic, so I guess it translates into this more mellow, pared back stuff. I'm happy when it works though, so always great to get feedback from folks like you when you enjoy it.

Re. the background vocals - I ended up drying them up a bit because I was battling with sibilance and the phrasing was a bit loose. Any wetter and all the tees and esses were clashing off each other too prominently.

Cheers man

 

[heatmiser]

Don't ruin it for me rob - I was convinced your sound was solely due to the integrity of your artistic vision!

 

[robgreen]

Don't ruin it for me rob - I was convinced your sound was solely due to the integrity of your artistic vision!

Apologies. What I think I was trying to say above is that my sound is solely due to the integrity of my artistic vision