new guy, many questions

  • Thread starter Thread starter kurt hagardorn
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kurt hagardorn

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hi,

I'm an experienced musician, but a very amateur home recorder. I've been recording on a friends SM57/Mackie Board/ADAT system but mixing with a friends Vegas Sound Forge (he knows how, not me)

I'm going to create my own studio, and I have about $4000 to invest inititally.
I was thinking about getting a Roland VS2480HD to start, because I want to do as much as possible myself, and I need a lot of tracks. Here are my questions:


1) Is a VS2480 the best way to go, or something else?

2) I noticed somebody on this site says they use a Mackie board into the vs2480. Why? I thought you could just plug right into this thing.
 
Yo Kurt, welcome to the board! There are so many things you need. A 2480 would suck up pretty much your whole budget. The first big question is why do you need all these tracks? Do you have the mics, the mic stands, cables, shock mounts, pop filters, and other hardware? Hell I could mic up a whole band with 18 tracks, my first album was done with 12, even though I had 18 available.
I went the standalone route initially, and it can work. The problem is that very few all in one boxes sound that great by themselves. They all want a better preamp. If I were going to spend your $4000, I'd probably start with Roland VS2000, a Shure KSM44, a Shure SM7-B dynamic, a pair of Studio Projects C-4's, and an Audix D6. That leaves you about $500 for stands, cables, and other accessories. We haven't even started with monitors, headphones, headphone distribution, power conditioning, room conditioning. You can plug into the Roland initially, but you will need one or more outboard preamps to approach professional sound quality. Most people would recommend a computer. Remember that the key to great recordings with "lots of tracks" involves a wicked front end, with bizzillions of inputs, and pricey mics and pres.
 
I'd try to find a second hand Roland VS 1680 w/FX cards. They are quite stable, and should be had for a reasonable price these days. This would leave lots of dineri for the other things you would need.

:cool:
 
Hey thanks! I'm just getting started, so all info is valuable to me, and this is just the kind of thing I need.
 
thanks also for the info! I love me some Beatles, too...
 
Well, Kurt, there's only 2 general solutions to the problem of needs vs. budget. You can use lots of cheap gear, and do more not as well, or you can do less better. I think many people on this board, including myself, would choose the latter. Every really good project studio, and a huge number of Pro outfits, are unholy alliances of cheap gear that works, and some pricey top-of-the-line industry benchmarks.
I can only afford a couple of benchmarks, supported by a cast of solid studio midpriced standards. Begin with the right mics, pres, whatever, to record what you play, then add a channel or two as you add the instruments and figure out what kind of signal chain each instrument needs. Preamps are a key. Some are clean, and produce very little color, some a lot more. Color can suck, or be magnificent. Clean makes you sound the way you sound. Color tries to make you sound better than you sound, or at least to airbrush out some of the player's imperfections.
Mics are the same way. They can sound good in one room but not another. Some mics just love or hate a particular instrument or voice. You don't have the budget to do a lot of things well. If you think more is better, get a big mucking mixing console and a lot of cheap mics. If you think less is more, Get a good clean 2 channel preamp to start and a small number of solid mid-priced mics, and a few good cheap ones. Get enough cables to mic up a drum kit, say 4-6 channels to start, and mic stands for the mics that need them.
You'll need 2-3 good cheap dynamics, a pair of small diaphragm condensers, a kick mic, a large diaphragm condenser that just sounds good on whatever vocalist you have, a better grade dynamic, and at least one workhorse large diaphragm condenser that's good on guitar. What other mics you might add over time, depends on what you want to record.Don't be too worried about the end of the signal chain, worry about the beginning. GIGO.-Richie
 
thanks richard

Thanks Richard; Again, this is exactly the kind of info I need. I hope my beginners questions aren't getting too tiresome, but can you recommend any particular makes and models of a "good clean 2 channel preamp" and a "workhorse large diaphragm condenser mic?

Also, would one of these Roland VS systems, correctly embellished, sound as good as or better than the ADAT/Mackie combo I'm currently using?

btw, the reason i need "lots of tracks" is 1) I'm basically playing all the instruments one at a time myself and 2) the style I'm working on is kind of fancy, lots of different sounds in a Beatles/Kinks/latter day Flaming Lips kind of way.

Thanks again for being so nice,

Kurt
 
"can you recommend any particular makes and models of a "good clean 2 channel preamp" and a "workhorse large diaphragm condenser mic? "

Sure, here goes-
Clean 2 channel preamp- M-Audio DMP-3 $160 or so, FMR Audio RNP $500, Avalon AD2022- $2500 or so. There are dozens of models in between $500 and $2000. I use the Avalon mostly and it rocks. We can cover colored pres another time, but I like Joemeek for cheap and I can't afford Great River or Avalon 737. You get what you pay for, YMMV.

Workhorse mic- for wicked cheap-Studio Procucts B-1- $80. New kid on the block- CAD M179. My darkhorse fairly cheap choice? AKG C2000B- $180 with the shock mount. Higher priced-Audio-Technica AT4033 or any 40-series mic,B.L.U.E. baby bottle- $500- AKG C414B-ULS and C414TL-II. Now we're into $600-750 mics. Some people with lots of money would use ribbons in the workhorse role, especially Royers. If you have to ask how much, you can't afford it. I like the C414 in the workhorse role a lot. What is a workhorse? Well, it isn't usually your first choice as a vocal mic, but a few singers, it'll be perfect. It's probably the first mic you put up for acoustic guitar, strings, brass, sax, harmonica, conga, Djembe, piano. Usually just about any instrument can be handled by the 2 small diaphragm condensers, the workhorse, or one of each. If none of that works, your fallback position is to use your higher end dynamic mic, and EQ for the tone you want later. Then you try your main vocal mic, Radio Shack, Mr. Microphone.
Don't worry. Lots of people will answer your questions. Before you ask a question, just make sure the search function has been seriously explored. Your questions have often been asked and answered already.-Richie
 
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