New Drum Session Coming this Saturday...

[RecordingMaster]

Hey everyone, just looking for your opinions on a few things for an upcoming drum session happening this Saturday starring yours truly. A little background on the project...It has been years since my dad and I jammed - back when i lived at home we'd jam all the time since I was a little kid. Him on guitar and myself on drums. Anyways, since I've gotten into the whole recording side of things more seriously as of the last couple years I thought it might be cool to do a project with him. We're doing Coldshot by SRV, Little Wing by Hendrix and Won't BackDown by Tom Petty. It's all just for fun, but I want to approach this project as my simplified projects - where as I use less mics, less processing, etc. In attempt to create a more organic, classic vibe, rather then the more modern Pro Tools stuff of today.

Here will be the micing setup:
4 pc maple kit, hats, 2 crash ( r and L) and a ride.
2 Pencil condensers on OH's in Recorderman Fashion (never used this one before) > Dual tube pre amp
57 snare top > GAP Pre 73
57 Snare bottom > stock digital pre
57 hi tom > stock digital pre
MD421 MKII on floor tom > stock digital pre
AKG D112 on Kick > Tube pre
Mono ribbon room mic > stock digital pre

So first question, if you had to choose a pre amp for the kick and snare, which would you choose - tube pre on kick and the Neve 1073 clone on snare, or the other way around? I'll be borrowing an extra tube pre this weekend and I've never used it on kick (or snare). Its the cheapo ART Tube MP, but it's a little more character than the shitty stock digital pres on my interface. So which would you start with anyways and why? I know it's aways different but curious what you think.

Next...
I'll be recording drums in a new room I've never used before. It is approx 20x15 and only has 7' ceilings. No matter where the drums go, they likely be set up in a way that my back is to a wall (not a corner and not in dead center of room). On that back wall, I'll have some portable baffles, and good bass traps stacked in each corner behind me. I'll staple up a 2"x2'x4' piece of auralex over the drums on the ceiling to catch some flutters and I'll have a thin carpet under my kit seeing as it is all tile floor and my kit will slide (and a piece of plywood under snare stand). I'll have a small love seat pushed to either side of the kit against the walls to act as another pseudo absorber/trap and stop some wongo reflections from coming into the side of the close mics.

All that being said, where would you first try the drums in the room? I've already walked around and hit a snare and tom tom and to be frank, they sound pretty great anywhere in the room. So that idea is not of much use today. Usually I set up with maybe 3' of space between my back and the wall behind me, on the short wall, so the drums are shooting down the length of the room (like monitor placement), and then I'll have the room mic at the opposite end. However the last time I tried another room like this size, I feel like I was getting some ugliness between the Oh's and the snare. Almost as if the punch was cancelling out. This wasn't a phase thing. Everything was aligned and double/triple checked. I guess I'm just thinking maybe I was at a null point in the room and my ears couldn't hear it but my mics could. So I want to go in more armed this time. I won't have al day to move the kit all around the room and re-adjust all the mics, etc. It's a huge time sucker and a big pain. Just curious what you guys have tried and what usually always works best for you. I like to try new things so that's why I ask.

Lemme know whatchya! Thanks for reading and Cheers!

 

[RecordingMaster]

Alright fine then! No one wants to answer, eh?



Yeah, I figured, you wouldn't. My post was too long for what i was asking and people's eyes are lazy when they see tons of text. Anyways, if there's anyone out there who appreciates posts like the one I am about to post and/or is bored and just curious to see what's up with this, then this one's for you. I ended up trying a similar setup in this new room and moving the kit a little further from the back wall. I'll do my due diligence and follow up again after the recording takes place this Saturday and let you know how this went and if anything needed to be changed.

Here's the setup in Recorderman fashion + close mics as listed above. I have since added another even taller panel behind the kit to the left and shuffled the other ones over to the right so there is close to complete coverage of the back wall except for a few empty spaces above the panels. I've also affixed a 12"x12" piece of "studio foam" behind each OH mic capsule since last time I put a full big sheet of foam over the kit it was a little TOO dead and lackluster without eq. Behind where I am standing in the first pic, there is a staircase leading upstairs to a big open living room. That will be where I try my first position for the mono room ribbon mic.


Here's just a typical close mic shot. You can't see the kick mic or the under snare mic but they are there. I'm still wondering what you guys would think is better (in other words, to try first). Eg: tube pre on kick and 1073 on snare or vice versa? For classic rock renditions. C'mon, can't be THAT hard to answer! lol

 

[RecordingMaster]

Haha this is great, no one responded at all and I am talking to myself. But, since this is a forum and the thread will be here "indefinitely", then I might as well do a follow up for anyone that cares to benefit from the info.

Perhaps I'm the type of person who doesn't care about only answering people on here who are up there in the popularity contest? Hmm...

So, I ended up using my first instinct - Neve on snare and tube on kick. The tube pre sort of rounded off the transient on the snare too much, and since they are classic rock tunes with not a crazy sharp kick attack, the tube pre was well suited on the kick in this scenario.

As for the room setup, I ended up setting up the kit as you see above, but less treatment to the side (just the couches), and I put a cutting board underneath the snare. I didn't put any treatment on the ceiling above, just a piece of studio foam on the higher placed mic over the snare. I've never had so much ambiance on the overheads in such a relatively low space.

There you go!

 

[grimtraveller]

To be honest with you, I didn't see the thread. Not that I would have had anything useful to add or help you with. My drum miking has developed via trial and error over the last three and a half years and I'm fairly comfortable with where I'm at though I'm always looking to improve. You seem to have a pretty good handle on what you require though.
By the way, how did the recordings turn out ? Were you happy with them ?
I think that sometimes, because some of the better engineers here are drummers and very opinionated ones at that and not backward in coming forward with their opinions, it can be a bit intimidating for those not that experienced in recording drums, to come out and say what they think. From time to time in the last 3 years some punters have been crushed in drum arguments and have either never returned or are very quiet when drums come up !

 

[RecordingMaster]

To be honest with you, I didn't see the thread. Not that I would have had anything useful to add or help you with. My drum miking has developed via trial and error over the last three and a half years and I'm fairly comfortable with where I'm at though I'm always looking to improve. You seem to have a pretty good handle on what you require though.
By the way, how did the recordings turn out ? Were you happy with them ?
I think that sometimes, because some of the better engineers here are drummers and very opinionated ones at that and not backward in coming forward with their opinions, it can be a bit intimidating for those not that experienced in recording drums, to come out and say what they think. From time to time in the last 3 years some punters have been crushed in drum arguments and have either never returned or are very quiet when drums come up !

I mentioned in the follow up (I think) that the recordings turned out great. Punchy, clean and not going to need much eq or verb. NOT putting treatment on the ceiling was the best thing I've ever done. Instant restored high end clarity and a nice crisp ambience I was lacking before. I always just threw up a cloud over the drums because I read that's what you should do. Not for me now that I've tried both! Like I mentioned, I just had one single square of foam affixed to be behind the butt end of the over-the-snare overhead mic.

And I can see that your points you made about people answering about drum stuff has plenty of validity. Thanks for the response!