New Delta 1010, New problems,

[James HE]

I just Upgraded today from a GL 496 to a Delta 1010.
hoorah! but...
I run a multiprocessor machine, or at least I try to. I couldn't with the GL 496, was stuck using 1 processor due to lack of drivers. I thought the Delta card would solve this problem... well, it might.

now a rant about software...
I got it bundled with Vegas Audio. I though Vegas pro was ok, but lacked some features. with a lot of what I do, I need a metronome, Vegas Audio has this feature, ok cool... I have been using Pro audio 9 mostly for tracking, Pro Audio 9 is sweet, the automation is excelent, I really like how it works, except how it manages wave files is absurd, basically it seems to want you to put ALL your data in the same folder, all with some un-identifiable name, it's global, data shouldn't be managed globally, I work around it by changing the location of the folder before I open a progect. this is a hassle. When you want to back up your data into a cakewalk bundle file, it's absolutly f'ing rediculus with it's "Compact audio data", which it does automatically, creating one big huge audio file. That just makes me nervous as hell, I avoid that, so I have to do it manually, which can take a L O N G time, as opposed to doing it in 30 seconds with Vegas or Cubase. It's a workaround I can live with, and I figure in time, I'll adapt to it, and learn how to manage files in Pro audio 9, doing it it's way and being ok with that. BUT Pro Audio 9 dosen't take advantage of multi processors, SONAR will, but that's another story... Vegas Audio does have multi processor support, and so far, better than Vegas Pro, still no automation though, bummer, i like automation, but I can work around this...

So I have new software, a new card, finally get it loaded into 2000, and I'm ready to rock with my dual processors, the card seems to be working fine with this, Delta's drivers seems to have worked out whatever conflicts in 2000. but here's the kicker... in 2000 Vegas dosent seem to recognize all of the Delta's inputs! Only one stereo pair! Geeze! I can't get a f'ing break!

so now these are my options...

1) Get Windows NT, and hope...

2) Track in 98 whenever I need more than 2 inputs. I can use 2000 and the dual processors when I mix and overdub cuz I won't need the multiple ins/outs. Wait for newer drivers from M-audio.

3) Upgrade my computer and work in 98. (a P4 would be nice)

4) Buy different software, and hope...

5) Get a different card, and hope...

So I'm still stuck working around problems and or throwing money at them. All I want is to have my system running at it greatest potential. These things aren't stopping me from recording, and making a good product, but it would just be so much better if all this stuff worked like it was supposed to! I'm tired of having to "workaround" things. So I find myself switching software, switching cards, switching OS's... when will it end! (i guess when I'm broke and lying in a ditch, deaf)

I'm sure most of you have had similar experiences, some of you not. If every "upgrade" has gone smoothly for you, then consider yourself lucky!


-jhe

 

[Slackmaster2K]

James,

The limited input/ouput shit is a known limitation that's been discussed a few times here. Basically, the word from m-Audio is that you cannot use more than the first stereo pair until your software provider updates to a new WDM interface.

However, the card should work properly with an ASIO application like n-Track. Does Vegas Audio support ASIO yet? Check for updates.

Also, download a trial copy of n-Track and have a whirl at it. After downloading you'll have to set it up to use "M-Audio Delta - ASIO" for both input and output under File->Preferences->Wave Devices

Slackmaster 2000

 

[James HE]

I see...

I've been playing around with Vegas Audio some more, and really I don't like it any better than Vegas Pro. Surprise surprise. Thanks Slack, I'll probably get an email from M-audio telling me the same things you told me (maybe a week from now) . I had thought that it was maybe the dual processor issue, I'm almost glad that that isn't the problem. (Although that may cause some problems, we'll see)

I was looking to get a 1010 without software. Mars Had them for $549. But have pretty much sold out and are not carrying the 1010 (at least without softwaare) anymore. I'd have had to go to maryland to get one, or wait and pay shipping. I figured for just a little more I'd just get the bundle. ended up paying $600.00 even at Guitar center for it, $574 plus tax. So $25 for software aint bad, even if it isn't my cup of tea.

I tried a demo of N-track, I thought it was good, but more and more I think I'm becoming a Caker. (despite some major misgivings) Looks like I may be going Sonor. but for now I'll just be chugging along with a single Celeron 533. not so bad.

I'll actually get to record something with the 1010 tomorrow. That will be the real test. As long as the converters sound better than the GL I'll might as... well... Jump! (Random Van Halen refference, I should go to bed)

I'm going to try to get the GL and the Delta loaded up together, mostly just to do some A-B-ing. I have been able to record with the GL and the crappy sound card together before, maybe I can swing both. I'll give it a go but I have much doubt. The GL is out now... wanted to make the 1010 instalation uncomplicated. I'll hang on to the GL nonetheless...

-jhe

 

[Slackmaster2K]

The comments I've always heard were that the gadgetlabs converters were superior to the delta... but no use arguing that anymore with GL being dead.

Anyway, I can save you some time waiting for M-Audio's tech support. I also emailed them several months ago...here's a copy of the response and my message. (also if you continue past the message I'm attaching some stuff from Flavio)

********Reply from M-Audio**************
HI,

Thats correct Not only Delta's all Sound cards using WDMs are crippled.


At 09:41 AM 2/19/01 -0700, you wrote:
>Hello,
>
>I am in the mood to purchase a Delta series card and am looking for
>information regarding Windows 2000 drivers. From what I gather, the Delta's
>are severely crippled on Windows 2000 unless they're doing ASIO.
>Specifically, I've read that they will only operate in 16/44 and only allow
>a stereo pair to be recorded and output.
>
>Is this information still current? Am I correct in assuming that M-Audio is
>taking Windows 2000 driver development seriously? I would be willing to
>purchase your product if I felt certain that developing for the modern NT
>platform was a priority.
>
>I'm running n-Track which does ASIO. Do you have any data with respect to
>n-Track, Windows 2000, and the Delta? If so I'd love to hear what's
>happening.
>
>Thank you very much,
>
>Boden Larson

Thank You,

Kirk March
Technical Support Midiman
Techsupt@midiman.net

*********End Reply***********

Not very informative at all. So I emailed Flavio in regards to n-Track.

Here's a response from Flavio on this same topic:

********Reply from Flavio********
>I am curious as to whether you have implemented this "fix" in n-Track. I
>looked over the software revision notes but didn't notice anything too
>specific. Would you care to comment? If not, I appreciate that you are a
>busy person.

What they describe as a 'fix' is actually a new way of accessing the soundcard, basically another type of driver, like MME, DirectSound and Asio. The good thing is that it comes 'naturally' with Wdm drivers, i.e. the manufacturer hasn't to do anything special to support this interface, while programs have to support a completely new interface. Anyway n-Track doesn't currently support this, mainly because it's not yet officially documented by Microsoft, but works great with Delta beta WDM drivers for Windows 2000, which totaly bypass the kmixer so have the lowest latency possible (the driver allows up to just 128 samples).


Regards,
Flavio Antonioli.
**********End Message*********

From this message I couldn't quite tell if he was saying that the Delta would or would not work in n-Track. It sounded like he was saying it won't work with WDM drivers but it will work with ASIO drivers. He clarified with:

"n-Track works great in Windows 2000 with Delta Asio drivers, with low latency and access to all the input and output channels. "

Hope this helps,

Slackmaster 2000

 

[James HE]

M-audio got back to me promtly!

Subj: Re: Delta 1010, Vegas Audio bundle with windows 2000. are you kidding?
Date: 3/19/01 10:22:12 AM Eastern Standard Time
From: techsupt@midiman.net (Tech Support)
To: MrJamesHE@aol.com

Please visit Sonic foundries user group and you will hear the pain. This is
a limitation of your application. Currently Nuendo, Cubase 5.0 and Sonar
work correctly in Windows 2000. I suggest that you contact your
application manufacturer and ask if they are working on a update or patch
or new program to work around the K-mixer in Windows 2000.
.

-jesper



At 12:36 AM 3/19/01 -0500, you wrote:
>I just purchased a Delta 1010 bundled with Vegas Audio to run on an Abit bp6
>with dual Celeron 533's running on windows 2000. However, Vegas Audio dosen't
>seem to recognize all of the Delta's inputs in windows 2000. Is ther a fix
>for this? It seems rediculus that I can't use the card with the software it
>came bundled with! will this be addressed in upcoming drivers? What software
>would work with my setup? Any info would be appreciated.
>
>Thank you.
>
>James Eure


Jesper A
Midiman M/Audio
(626)445-8495
www.midiman.net
Please do not delete prior email s. Thank you.

************************************

Sonar seems to be a go. I'll have to check that out.

I will do some tests to see weather or not there are differences in the converters. I'm off to fight the IRQ battle. When i put the GL back in I will have 3 sound cards, a RAID controller card, and a PCI modem, no empty pci slots! If I'm not happy with the results, I may return the Delta and save for a MOTU. Isn't PC recording fun?!

-jhe