New Amateur Equipment

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Afficianado

Afficianado

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Hey all! New to the message board, and just getting started in home recording. Perhaps this post belongs in a different forum (newbie, computer, etc.) forum, but I figured if I posted smart questions to any forum, I'd get smart answers.

I've played piano for about 20 years, and guitar for 10, and I'd like to start working on getting some of my sound recorded, mixed, edited, etc. I'm a computer professional and amateur musician, and I've done severely amateurish multi-track recordings before with a PC before, but am ready to make it more of a serious hobby than before. So I'm buying new equipment, and severely limiting my budget so I can get a feel for the sounds I'll be working with and know which direction to take for future upgrades over the years.

So I've done a bit of research, have an idea of what I'm aiming for, what I'm buying, and have some questions, and am looking for feedback.

Basically, I'd like to do multitrack recording with my PC. I will be mic'ing all of my audio input, which will be one track track added at a time. I'm looking for a good clean sound, so that what goes into the mic what gets laid down. I will be mic'ing a small amp for guitar, as well as vocals.

After doing some research, here's what I've tentatively come up with:

Shure BETA 58A Mic - Reviews have indicated good response, low noise, versatile, and mics an amp fairly well.

M-Audio Audio Buddy Pre-amp - Seems to be the quintessential "cheap and clean" pre-amp. Don't need a tube, just a good clean sound for both vocals and guitar.

Cakewalk Multitrack Software - Very popular software package, probably has everything I want.

Now here is where I get stuck: getting the sound into the computer. I have a SBLive! Value card right now that is adequate for gaming/movies, but has 1/8" line-in and mic inputs. This seems largely inadequate, but I could be wrong. Do I go with a PCI card, like the Audiophile 2496, and adapt the 1/4" pre-amp out to RCA? Do I get an external USB input device like the Tascam US-122? Or do I just use the line-in capabilities of a consumer sound card?

I suppose the question might need asking, do I even need the separate pre-amp? Or do I use whatever's on the PC input device?

So any help, thoughts, or answers to questions would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!
 
quite you have good guesses.....

get audiophile 2496 is good for start....
You need a preamp for your mic and take the m-audio buddy
Shure 58A is great
cakewalk???? no doubt....cakewalks are the best ;)

as a basic setup, you can plug your piano(if your using synth keyboard) directly into your soundcard.

what kind of guitar do you have? electric? budget?
 
hrmm. audio buddy is good. if you can get the 120 dollar deal at guitar center go for the DMP3 instead. Beta 58a is a good mic, but I think an Sm57 might be less expensive and more usefull in a recording situation. And that would leave room in your budget to get an inexpensive condensor(Studio Projects B1, is popular here).
 
I'm all for helping people and all....... But wouldn't this thread be better posted in the soundcard forum? Or even the other gear forum?
 
I like your line of thinking, however I think that you would be happier if you chose an FMR RNP for your preamp. You would likely never out grow this pre amp and it would hold it's value very well, also you would never wind up asking yourself if your problems (should any arise) was due to a cheap pre amp.

I am suggesting this because of your somewhat enlightened mic choice of a 58. This is a great example of a mic you will never outgrow and that will hold it's value.

For the Cakewalk stuff, I would suggest you download the free demo of Cakewalk's Sonar product. I spent a week or so working with it before deciding it was right for me.

Good luck.

Jim
 
Thanks for the feedback. For those who were wondering which instruments I'll be recording, I've got a Les Paul standard (very basic electric, good sound), an old Peavey Predator (I use mostly for practice, but with years of use and abuse, now produces a nifty unique sound), and a Martin D-1 w/ Fishman acoustic pickup (omigosh - what a sound). No keyboard, no drums, no bass. Eventually I'd like to add a bass to the mix, and that will present its own types of challenges. But for now, think mic'ed amp and voice.

As far as the RNP goes, it does sound like a really nice pre-amp (har!), but it was a bit more than I was willing to spend. But, as with all musicians who have been given too much credit, I can be convinced to spend the extra chunk of change. I need to be convinced of 3 things. 1) The RNP will last me quite a while. 2) The RNP is substantially better than the DMP3 or Audio Buddy. 3)The RNP is best for my needs in the sub $500 price-range.

And of course, I still need to address the issue of connecting to the PC. Do most people in this forum go from mic to pre to mixer to PC? If so, how would you go about eliminating the mixer and going straight from pre-amp to PC? Or is it worth getting the mixer rather than having to deal with getting XLR out into a PCI card?

My continued thanks for your help!
 
Most people go right out of the preamp and directly into the soundcard. But we are not talking consumer soundcards. You will want something that atleast has RCA inputs if not ballenced TRS/XLR.

You don't go through a mixer because that usually adds unwanted noise and shitty EQ's untill you get into the large format consoles.

Alot of people use mixer for the preamps they have inside, taking the signal right from preamp via the inserts or direct outs.

As for mics I would start with the SM-57 and not the Beta-58A. The Beta-58A is really a live mic, its built for high volume applications where feedback is an issue. To my ears its a little harsh on vocals, I can't see it being any better on a GTR amp. The SM-57 is pretty standard for micing GTR amps. The next step up would be alot of $$$.

Cakewalk isn't all that great, I use SAW and Cooledit pro. Its really upto personal taste, go download a few and try them(not the demo just get the warez) and when you find the one you like buy it and support the authors(or the investers who own the company :P )
 
My advice to you is watch whose advice you follow. If you check the other threads in this forum you may find one of your advice-givers asking what phantom power was yesterday, and then advising you what sort of mic and preamp you need today.

Nothing wrong with not knowing what phantom power is for a newbie, in fact I think that was my first post here, but if that's their level of knowledge, taking their advice is dangerous.

For instrument amps, as advised, the SM57 is a good starting point - lots of good stuff been done with them. For vocals, most would prefer a large diaphragm condenser (which will require phantom power, which the preamps you're discussing should deliver). Shure 58 Beta is a live mic. If you already have it, by all means try using it, but I wouldn't buy one for recording vocals.

Which large diaphragm condenser would be best is another question entirely, and the subject of many posts on this board.

Good luck.
 
Thanks for your analysis of the mic! So, what then is the difference between the 57 and the BETA 57A? (Besides the obvious answer of 50 bucks :P )

I'm getting real close to placing the order of the equipment I want, and the input I've gotten from this board has been most helpful.
 
fenix said:
You can't go right either. :)
Click to expand...

I disagree, the sm57 is an excellent mic for micing guitar amps and it is also a decent vocal mic.
It is great on Snare drum, and good on toms and percussion instruments.
It will do a respectable job on just about anything you try it on, with a few exceptions .
 
best cheap multitrack software

afficianado try these multitrack software .....all excellent ....
if you dont believe me talk to folks on the user forums at the sites.
all are less than 100 bucks.
fasoft.com....n track
magix.de .....magix audio studio. fantastic imho. too many features to list.
pgmusic.com .....powertracks only 29 bucks .....dont let the low price fool you. 48 tracks of digital audio plu s excellent midi sequencing.
rawmaterialsoftware.com.......tracktion.
multitrackstudio.com........great multitracker.
as for preamps - i build my own - only 10 to 20 buks.
if you dont belive the quality of diy preamps have a listen
to some songs of mine --->>> www.soundclick.com/bmanning
click on music and listen to "Gin n' Lime". another of my songs on there was in the top 5 for a year in the blues section - look for
"Hi tech man". now give a listen to "take my love" - done with hi end studio consoles. not much difference in quality is there ?
most people cant tell which of my 52 songs used diy preamps and which used Hi end.
as for mics. if you have the money -- beyerm88,shure sm7,
and old ev dynamics are good and many others like 421/441
and some of the newer chinese mics.
regards...
bm
 
Afficianado said:
I will be mic'ing a small amp for guitar, as well as vocals.
Click to expand...

Well, in fairness, you did state the above.

However, for acoustic guitar, I keep recommending the following:

2 MC012 from GC ($99)
1 DMP3 from GC ($149 - $199)
1 Audiophile from GC (seen them as low as $129)

IMO, this is by far the best budget setup available for recording acoustic guitar < $500.

The DMP3 is also good for vocals and as a DI.
 
i use n-track. i like it. it wasnt intimidating, and it seems very functional.
 
how do you build your own preamps for 10 to 20 bucks? for that much i want to try it just to try it.
 
yeah

audiophile + DMP3+ sm57/SP B1 = pretty nice signal chain.
 
vox said:
I disagree, the sm57 is an excellent mic for micing guitar amps and it is also a decent vocal mic.
It is great on Snare drum, and good on toms and percussion instruments.
It will do a respectable job on just about anything you try it on, with a few exceptions .
Click to expand...

Keep using it then.
 
rocket boy

there are lots of diy mic pre schematics on the internet.
but take some electronics training first like i did.
look for low noise transistor mic preamp schematics on google.
this should get you started.
 
Card:Get the Audiophile 24/96 simple straight foward card: pay no more then $150(dump the lousy SB card)

Software:Check out Cakewalk GuitarTrackPro again simple program kind of works like the old 4 track tape machines and if you are not using Midi you won't need all the bells and whistles: Plus you get some basic in the box directX effects :$100 direct from cakewalk.

Mics: Don't screw around get a condenser or two . There are many posts here regarding entry level condensers that sound pretty damm good: $200-250 at least

Pre: Dude find a used Mackie 1402 on Ebay or somewhere . The channel pre-amps in the Mackie are more then good enough to get you going plus you will like all of the in and out options with a mixer rather then just a staight pre-amp : maybe $200-250 ( I am not to sure on the going rates now but lots of folks here can help direct you to a decent price)

Headphones? Moniters ? you need to listen back somehow and your monitering should be pretty flat . Standard stereo speakers will "color " the sound too much
Headphones: AKG K240Ms, Sony 7506: $100-$150
Moniters: it is a crap shoot shop around

Don't forget patch cables and don't skimp get decent cables and with care they will last as long as you need them: Monster,Mogami, etc......

basiclly you are looking to spend at least a grand to get you going with a decent entry leval setup

hope this helps...
Dave
 
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