Neumann KM184 question?

[sickstring69]

Being of modest means, my home studio has never been graced by a Neumann mic. Being an acoustic fingerstylist I read Acoustic Guitar Magazine every month and have seen an ad on the KM184 saying that it's the only mic acoustic players need in any situation and on any guitar whether live or recording. Is it true? I currently use a Rode NT3 and an AT4040. Is it worth risking $700? Help! I'm really hoping all the ad hype is true and "leaves you speechless". Thanks. This is my first day with you guys, by the way, glad to meet you all.

 

[Treeline]

$700 is a bunch to spend. Do you need another pair of mics right now? What is it you're looking for in a mic that doesn't seem to be there in the gear you have right now?

If this is mostly for acoustic fingerstyle use, the research should include looking at the range of available mics before you get into Neumann territory. For instance, at least consider the MXL 603s (pretty nice and very inexpensive), the Oktava MC012 (check out The Sound Room for matched pairs that have passed a quality control test), the Shure KSM137, and the Studio Projects C4. Then test the Neumanns; you may end up preferring them. If so, then get them! But by that time the pull of the Neumann ads will have faded a bit and you'll get something for the right reason.

 

[Track Rat]

I have some 184's. Great mics for sure but not my first choice (well, that depends....) for acoustic. They're VERY bright mics, almost too bright sometimes. I like Earthworks mics on acoustic (SR-71's) a lot. The Octavas (from the Soundroom) are very smooth sounding mics. The omni caps are nice if your room sounds good. I like AT4033's on acoutics too. These are great all rounder mics.

 

[Raaen]

Being of modest means, my home studio has never been graced by a Neumann mic. Being an acoustic fingerstylist I read Acoustic Guitar Magazine every month and have seen an ad on the KM184 saying that it's the only mic acoustic players need in any situation and on any guitar whether live or recording. Is it true?

While the 184s have a bump at the high end, it's never been 'unmusical' for me. I've used mics that were very bright in an undesirable way. But in using these at least, in my experience, they are not overly bright. They are very nice mics, but your milage might vary depending on all other factors: preamp, room, guitar, strings etc. For me, let me put it this way- the majority of time I don't have to use any eq. Does that mean all my tracks are stellar? They not. But I know that it's usally mic placement or some other factor that's messing with the track. Because I get excellent results with the 184s does it mean they are the best mic? I think I could do better. But for the price, it does a great job.

Had a chance to side by side comparison with some Octavas 012s. The 012's actually stood up pretty good...I was surprised. Sonically there were more similarities, than dissimilarities. Very quiet mic. The 184s seems to catch more detail from just a subjective standpoint.

Overall, I'm glad I have my pair. It's a mic I know I can count on. But there are certainly others to consider. But like most things in audio, you get what you pay for. If you buy just a single mic, you have to consider that you'll be missing any stereo field, which imo, is a huge thing to consider when micing fingerstyle guitar. You may not miss it live, but for studio work, you'll have good tracks, but it might lack some depth. If $700 is your budget, you might look at alternatives for a pair. I would agree with the 4033, atleast for studio work. I don't know how they are on stage.

Good Luck.

 

[meriphew]

I own a pair of KM184's and while I do like 'em quite a bit (they help the acoustic cut through in my sonically dense mixes), if I were to buy a pair of SD mics now, I would prolly opt for either a pair of Josephson C42's (which go for aprox $450 each) or a pair of Groove Tube GT44's. Neumann's recent bump in price has put them into a "not worth it for that much money" category IMO.

 

[Bowisc]

I agree with Meriphew...with Neumann's price increase last year, there's other options out there for your money, unless having the "name" in your locker is important for your business.

Check out the Josephson C42's. I spent many months listening to what would work for acoustic stuff, which is a lot of what I do. I went through tons of SD's before locking into the C42's. To me, they were much more useable than the KM-184's. I had access to both on various sessions.

They are a bargain at $399... I got my pair from Cascade Media.

 

[Ronan]

I have never found the 184s to be very exciting mics. I rarely find them making the cut as a main mic. The Neuman 84 is a different story all together.

Think very seriously about spending your budget on one really good mic than a pair of lesser mics. If you really need stereo on a track you can do an M-S pair with a mis matched pair of mics.

 

[Bambi Busboom]

Oktava MC012s- shadow of the KM84

Whne I was looking around to fnd a good microphone for a fairly limited use of acoustic recording of piano, viola da gamba, cello, and classical guitar- but mostly piano, a recording engineer friends lent me several microphones. The most refined were Schoeps CMC6/MK4s -very expensive- but the "friendliest" and my favourite sound came from Neumann KM84s- note "84" and not the "184". The KM84s just seem to have a great balance top to bottom and were very smooth. Placement was a bit easiler than the Schoeps for some reason. I had morel difficulty with the placement of the one AKG C-414 EB I tried, but I could tell this had a good sound -potentially. The AKG C391s were interesting too, but lacked the presence of the KM84s.

But, the KM84 has become somewhat dear. And I don't no anyone that feels the KM184 is an improvement on the KM84. Then I heard that the Oktava MC012 was based on the KM84 and I did eventually buy these- choosing 2 similar ones from 12.

I never did try the KM84s next to the Oktavas, but the Oktavas do seem to have a high percentage of the KM84 attributes that I like- though a little darker, but on my bright Kawai KG5 (6'8) and harpsichord, the extra darkness was actually a benefit. The sound on guitar is very nice as was cello and gamba. I can really recommend the MC012s- they're not Neumann 84s, but at $100 each- excellent on all the acoustic istruments I've tried- clavichord too, which are difficult to record. I don't like the MC012 on voice as much however.

Recording chain: Oktava MC012s> Peavey VMP-2 all tube mic pre > M-Audio Audiophile 2496 > Dell Pentium 750/ 256/ 40GB and 80GB HDs > CoolEdit 2.0 > CD-R

One piece of gear I am very glad I spent a bit more on is the Peavey VMP- 2, for $700 the all-tube design with a very efffective tube EQ- very nice. The Audiophile 2496 is a week old addition and I'm extremely pleased with that one. The 2496 was another great value at $100 and the limited inputs is not a problem in my strictly two channel recording world.

I have been quite tempted towards the KM184 as so many people loved it on piano when it first came out, then there have been many comments on it's brightness- an attribute that attracts me less for digital recording. Given the cost and the more recent comments, I'm going to stay with the Oktavas for the time being- and save the $1100 difference!

Cheers,

Bambi B

 

[sdelsolray]

Being of modest means, my home studio has never been graced by a Neumann mic. Being an acoustic fingerstylist I read Acoustic Guitar Magazine every month and have seen an ad on the KM184 saying that it's the only mic acoustic players need in any situation and on any guitar whether live or recording. Is it true? I currently use a Rode NT3 and an AT4040. Is it worth risking $700? Help! I'm really hoping all the ad hype is true and "leaves you speechless". Thanks. This is my first day with you guys, by the way, glad to meet you all.

There are basically three quality/price ranges for small diaphragm condensers, nearly all of which perform well (within their individual capabilities) with recording fingerstyle acoustic guitar.

The first group include the Oktavas mentioned, the Studio Projects C4, MKL 603 and several others. There are many. many threads here and elsewhere about this group.

The second group include the Neumann KM184, Josephson C42, Microtech Gefell M300, T.H.E., Shure SM-81 among others. There's less discussion on the web comparing these mics for fingerstyle acoustic guitar.

The third group includes Schoeps CMC6/MK4 (or MK41), Microtech Gefell M295, DPA, Neumann 100 Series and Josephson Series 6. These mics get consistent praise, any of them are wonderful for solo fingerstyle acoustic guitar.

I only record solo fingerstyle acoustic guitar. I've tried nearly all the SDs at one time or another. To my ear and uses, here's what I like the most from each group:

1) Group 1: SP C4 followed closely the the Oktava MC-012. Decent mics, particularly for the price.
2) Group 2: Microtech Gefell M300 followed by the T.H.E. body with cardioid cap (dunno the model # right now). Excellent mics, better accuracy and overall performance than group 1 mics.
3) Group 3: Any of them. I use the Schoeps CMC6/MK4 (cardiod caps). The Gefell M295 is incredible and I plan on getting a pair. This group is simply stunning (and expensive - $2,000+ for a pair). Over time, these mics have gone up in value.