Need suggestions on what to buy...not a lot of $$$

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Nutdotnet

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Hello all. I am need of assistance from anyone who is willing to help.

Here is the deal, I am a college boy that would like to buy a sound card and mixer of some-sort so I can record into my computer. The reason I mentioned I am a college boy is that my funds are VERY limited.

Currently I have a SM57 Mic that I am forced to use for vocals as well as micing my acoustic guitar. For bass guitar I will be plugging it in direct, and for precussion, well that will be the next thing I buy- a drum machine.

So what is out there? My max is probably around $400 unless there is something AMAZING for a little more. But the cheaper the better, I don't even know if I can afford $400, this is going to be a purchase after my birthday (in a week) as well as after I buy a new acoustic guitar which is going to run me anywhere from $800-$1150 on one depending on what I end up buying.

I have had my eye on the M-Audio Omni Studio, which is a Delta 66 Soundcard and the "Omni I/O Preamp" (check it out here: http://www.m-audio.com/m-audio/html/products/omnistud.htm )

That looks like it would work and it is $399.99. Plus it would work with my "lovely" AMD/VIA computer setup I have.

Keep in mind that I will be doing all the playing and singing myself so I don't need a bunch of inputs and what not.

So what do you guys think of this? Is there something better out there? I would REALLY like to get a soundcard and a small Mackie Mixer but I just don't think I will have the kind of $$$ to do that.

Thanks in advance!
 
I also wanted to add that currently I am only using headphones to do my monitoring, it is a pain but it is all I can use for now.

Plus the recordings I am doing are primarily for my own personal use, I am not trying to make a marketable album. My goal is to lay down some stuff and post it on the web and say "hey you like what you hear? Wanna be in a band? Sorta thing." But I am always a "perfectionist" so I wanna get the best sound I can.
 
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can't be done for $400...

I have been seeing a bunch of posts asking about how much it costs to get started. I wish I had known what I was getting into when I got started, and have given some thought as to what the cheapest workable solution should run.

Let's say your needs are simple: Voice and acoustic guitar. Other stuff would add to the price.

I will probably catch some flaming for this, but I would say the budget would have to be $700 for new equipment on today's market. None of this stuff is top shelf, but most of it will still be usable when you upgrade (and you will).

This would buy:
Rode NT1 ($200)
Aardvark DirectPro 24/96 (bundled with) $500
Cakewalk pro 9

This setup does NOT include:
Decent (or any) monitors ($300+)
Necessary cabling ($100)
The computer

With this equipment, a competent recording of a acoustic guitar and vocals could be done. The key to this solution (now $1000) is the stuff that comes with the Direct Pro. It has:
Mic preamps
Built in compressor
Cakewalk Pro

This stuff is all necessary, and if purchased separately, adds hundreds to the price of the solution.

Now, even once the money is spent, without the knowledge to use it, it will still sound like crap. I wish the guys in the music stores would explain this to people. Its taken me almost as much effort to learn recording (and I still have a long way to go) as it did to learn to play guitar (and I still have a long way to go). I do, however know a 80Hz highpass filter from a 4db compressor makeup gain. The point is, it takes a while to figure the stuff out. Until its figured out, it just won't sound good. Fortunately we have resources like this board to help.

A cheaper and temporary solution would be a beringer mixer ($100) and some free/inexpensive software. This would let you get a usable signal into your current soundcard. If you're just going to use the 57 (which is a good mic, though not for vocals or acoustic guitar) you would be wasting you money on a soundcard upgrade. This would let you get started in figuring out how this stuff all works, without spending hundreds of dollars. It will never sound very good, since without a condensor mic and compression, it is tough to get a listenable voice or acoustic track. (possible, but tough)

So, sorry for the long post, but I'm just sharing some of what I wish I had known when I got started. Its a great hobby, but there is no cheap solution. A tape portastudio would run the same amount of money as well.

Does anyone else have a cheaper ($400) way?
 
Thanks!!! I really appreciate your reply. Here is the thing, about a year ago my brother and I did have an "okay" home studio using the computer. We had a Mackie 1202vlz Pro, Alesis Monitors (sorry can't remember which one), Motu 2408, a few mics- including a really nice shure (sorry can't remember the model #). My brother go a little carried away, he eventually started buying all the stuff, including the sound card above (it was in his computer), the monitors, a POD guitar processor, an extremely nice noise gate/compressor setup, as well as buying Cubase, Wavelab, and quite a few-plugins.

The largest problem was what you mentioned, we really had no idea how to use the stuff and even though we had a few thousand dollars worth of stuff the music still sounded "okay". I imagine the majority of you could have made a near-professional sound with all that stuff. Anyways, he ended up selling all the stuff because he go out of the recording scene, he and I both wish he hadn't.

Okay so let me tell you all what I have and you guys can tell me what I need.

I already have a pretty powerful computer, but it is an AMD and has a VIA chipset, I know this setup is reported to have issues with MOTU setups as well as Echo Setups. I know that Delta soundcards work fine, not sure on others.

As stated above I have a Shure SM57 mic, I got a really good deal on it (my brother sold it to me for $75 along with a pair of Sony MDR-7506 and a WHOLE bunch of cables.)

So should I possibly sell this mic (how much could I sell it for?) and get a condensor mic that would work well with vocals and acoustic guitar? Which mics would you folks recommend? Cheaper the better!

I have Cubase as well as Wavelab plus good selection of plugins. My brother is letting me use the programs until I can afford to buy them from him.

So what else do I need? And how much am I looking to spend? Again I have to keep this as inexpensive as possible.

Thanks!
 
Good suggestions from schwa. It is difficult to get started, and there's no manual to guide you. I would save the $400.00. You can get Guitar Tracks for $50.00 - it has 8 tracks an Drag and Drop Drummer Lite. Use the soundcard that came with the computer and the sm57. Record, practice, research, and take your time. As you go, you'll define what your most pressing needs are - better mic, soundcard upgrade (Echo Mia is $200.00), and in the meantime you're only out $50.00 for software, which you can upgrade if you choose (although not to PA9). What is the saying "buy cheap, buy twice" (apologies to Sonusman).

Nady scm 900 - $100.00
Mic pre (Art or Behrenger) - $100.00
Cake GT or CE2000 - $50.00
SB live value - $50.00

There's $300.00, and you'll probably outgrow most of it quickly. Be patient and spend wisely. Good luck
 
YES I DO

Delta 44 $199 (outpost.com, where Slackmaster got it). You DON'T need the digital inputs right now. Art TubeMP, $99. N-Track $60 for the 24 bit version.

Better yet...looks like right now you don't need 4 ins-outs so the SoundBlaster Live! might work as a soundcard for under $100.
 
Thanks guys!

Like I stated in my second post I already have the software, and Echo Soundcards will not work with my setup.

I do currently have a SoundBlaster Live! Right now I am just plugging the SM57 in direct, I think I need a pre-amp of some sort.

So for $300 I can get the Art TubeMP and the Delta 44, would it be worth saving the $100 over the "Omni-Studio" that I talked about in my initial post?

Isn't the SBLive! not very favored for recording "real" music? I know that it works pretty decent for MIDI, but for Playing "real" audio it "doesn't cut the mustard"

Thanks!
 
Now we're getting somewhere...

Its good to see the input from other folks, and I'm glad I didn't come off like some sort of prima donna.

I like Chesterfield's suggestions, except I hate it when I end up paying to solve a problem twice (buy cheap, buy twice). Also without compression, it will be difficult to get that group of equipment to sit right in a mix.

Given your most recent reply, I would stick with my suggestion of a mixer (for phantom power), and consider the Nady or Rode Mic. You're still going to need to add compression somewhere, its best to have at least some on the way in.

Keep the 57, you'll end up needing one eventually, since no mic does everything, and its one of the best for some things (micing a guitar amp, for example).

In the spirit of keeping in budget, stick with the SB. You won't be needing the extra inputs until you have more equipment to plug in (which you don't), or need to track more than two sources at a time (which you don't). Don't let others tell you its not enough quality for recording. You'll know (from what you hear) when its time to move up.

One of the best things in this thread bears repeating: Be patient and spend wisely.

Another one might be: If you don't know WHY you need it (equipment), then you don't need it yet.
 
Hehe. Okay. So stick with the SBLive! for now and pickup a mixer and a good condensor mic?

What would you folks recommend for those? Well I think I know about the mic, Nady or Rode, maybe others?

As far as compression goes, can't I use the compression plugins I have or do I need an outboard compressor?

Thanks!
 
Hey Nut,

If money is that tight, let me give a two cents for free.....get you an Art Tube MP preamp, under $100....use the Sm57 and the SB Live you have already...dont buy anything else yet.....Cubase and Wavelab are awesome and plugins will work fine, but your processor will set the limits of how many you can use......Ive heard some real decent stuff done with a 57, Art preamp, and SB Live......

I agree with schwa about "buy cheap, buy twice", but I also know you can get good results with what you have plus a preamp....

If you will only need one mic, and it will mainly be for vocals and acoustic guitar, i would sell the 57 and get a condenser mic, a RodeNT1 maybe........
 
Well, there you have it...

Gidge has a point. Maybe there is a "cheap" solution after all. In answer to your question regarding compression with a plug, yes it is possible, but its harder to monitor, and you're forced to put a lower level signal down on the tracks.

Regarding other mics than the Rode, there are alternatives, frequently discussed in the microphone group. The NT1 is as good or better as any of the alternatives, though.
 
Okay the NT1 eh? goes for about $199.99 correct?

What about the NT3? That guy goes for $159.99

One more thing, what about the dbx 286A? It is a mic preamp along with compressor and de-esser and it goes for $199.99

I can get the NT3 and the dbx 286A for $340. Although if the ART Tube preamp would work just as good I would rather get that, I just got back from Guitar Center and the dude showed me the dbx, kind of looks nice because it has the compressor, de-esser, expander, and a noise gate all in one nice package, but I have no idea on what the quality of it is.

What do you all think? Again, the cheaper the better, but I understand the importance on using "proper" compression techniques.

Here is a link for the dbx 286A http://www.dbxpro.com/286A.htm


Again, thanks for all your help!

Edit- The NTI can be had at American Musical Supply for $179.99
 
Oh yeah, I don't really know about the ART Tube MP, granted it will work and probably great with my budget, but I have heard that it puts quite a bit of extra "noise" into the recordings.
 
Ive used it very little, but Ive never found it noisy (once you learn how to use it and set levels)....you may have heard that it "colors" the sound....Musicians Friend has the NT1 for 179.00, and if you can spring for a few more duckies, I would......I know that dbx makes a good preamp, but Ive never heard their effects....I would say have the salesperson at Guitar Center set you up with a Rode NT1,NT3, art tube pre and the dbx and let you play a bit.....
 
I'll jump in here and say...that any of the mentioned equipment should do you fine....to start out. I doubt that the equipment will be your limiting factor....meaning, give yourself some time to learn the 'art' or recording. You didn't learn guitar playing in a week.....why would recording be any different? It is an artform too, and the studio can be as much an instrument as a guitar. The names you hear and read about as such top engineers got that way because they "are" [great, talented engineers]. Don't expect new equipment purchases to boost your level of CD quality up drastically.(when you are talking about stuff like a NT1 or a tupe MP). Even though they are cheap shit, the days of killer home studios are here NOW and God bless technology!!!
 
Agian thanks for the replies.

Alright, so get the NT1 or NT3? I think I can manage to afford either one.

Now when it comes to getting a Mic Pre. What would you guys get? The dbx 286A or save the $100 and get the ART Tube Mic Preamp?

Man, I also need monitors too. Oh well, that will be my next purchase a few years from now, hehe.

Shoot, I don't even know if I can afford the stuff I am talking about, I guess I will know after my b-day in a week.
 
http://www.pcrecording.com/tubeMP.htm

heres a review of the Art.....if you are a cheapskate like me (mainly because Im always broke)....Id get the nt1 and art , 280.00....sell the 57 for 80.00 (ebay people are suckers, you might get up to 100.00 for it)......you are only out 200.00.....
 
Oh yeah, but seriously what about compression? Will the plugins I have work just fine or should I really consider getting an external compressor?
 
Eventually, you might want a standalone compressor, or maybe not....i rather software....if you have a standalone compressor, you have one compressor....if you have a plug-in, you have as many compressors as your CPU will allow.....Im just trying to get you recording....Wave Lab is pretty damn good and Cubase also....you'll be fine.....a nt1 and a art tube pre will always hold their value if u wanna get rid of them later.....hell, ill buy them....
 
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