Need some expert help with Trackspacer

[purplepeople]

Hi, I'm trying to use Trackspacer to carve some space in some very dynamic instrumentals. Primarily because the bass/kick is very strong and the instrumentals have quite a bit of panning.
How I have things setup sounds ok, but I feel like it could be better.

According to videos and such that I've watched it recommends using the "mid" option to cut space for the vocals. Is this the best option for all situations or only if your vocals are centered mono in the mix?

My vocals are very wide. I have centered vocals, but I also pan layers to 39 l/r, 59 l/r, and 100 l/r. It creates for a very wide sound. Probably around 10 different layers. Sometimes more.

When I'm using Trackspacer, I don't feel like my panned layers are coming out enough in the mix. It leaves the vocals sounding flatter than I think they should sound like. Is this because I have things set to mid instead of L/R? Meaning it's not leaving any room for my pans? I presumed if I used L/R it might crush the stereo/panning sound of the instrumentals?

My computer is super slow and I can't watch the graph/listen to what's happening in real time. So it makes things difficult getting it how I want it.

Currently I have things setup like this.

1. Trackspacer on my bass to duck for my kick. Around 5%. L/R Should this be mid?
2. Trackspacer on a bus with all of my drum elements. I have it setup to where it's only cutting around 3.5-5k. Around 7%. Mid. Should this be L/R?
3. Trackspacer on a bus with all of my other instruments. I have it setup to where it's ducking the whole area. Around 5%. Mid. Should this be L/R?

For this above setup, how should my attack/release settings look like? I noticed the default is too slow on some songs and doesn't properly duck certain instruments if they repeat quickly.

Since I can't listen in real time this is difficult to get right. For my above setup how should the attack/release speed be? And should I be using mid or L/R in each of those setups?

Thanks for your help.

 

[rob aylestone]

Might I ask why you need such a thing? If there are problems with a part being heard, I cannot imagine using a plug in to do this kind of thing? Your solution is cutting, slicing, squeezing and mangling. The mid reduction idea is a pretty standard trick, but always has to be fine tuned to the sound you want the listener to focus on - for some voices it will shift significantly.

You do seem wrapped up in numbers. Like '3.5-5k. Around 7%' - it's meaningless as these kinds of adjustments are individual and one offs. I could not tell you if these numbers are typical in my mixes, you just tweak till it works and I never remember anything in terms of frequency or dB or percentages. If anyone here uses the plug in and uses it on your style of music, with your instrumentation, maybe you get an answer that makes sense, but is 5% so different to 7%? 3.5 that different to 3.8K? we don;t do music by numbers, we just adjust to taste, like a cook.

If you cannot do these things in real time - the plugin is totally unusable. it's like working by guesswork. Your workflow is totally messed up. You MUST be able to press play and tweak to perfection. In fact, if your computer is stretched, adding more plug ins is a very strange thing to do. Sort the hardware!!

 

[purplepeople]

Might I ask why you need such a thing? If there are problems with a part being heard, I cannot imagine using a plug in to do this kind of thing? Your solution is cutting, slicing, squeezing and mangling. The mid reduction idea is a pretty standard trick, but always has to be fine tuned to the sound you want the listener to focus on - for some voices it will shift significantly.

You do seem wrapped up in numbers. Like '3.5-5k. Around 7%' - it's meaningless as these kinds of adjustments are individual and one offs. I could not tell you if these numbers are typical in my mixes, you just tweak till it works and I never remember anything in terms of frequency or dB or percentages. If anyone here uses the plug in and uses it on your style of music, with your instrumentation, maybe you get an answer that makes sense, but is 5% so different to 7%? 3.5 that different to 3.8K? we don;t do music by numbers, we just adjust to taste, like a cook.

If you cannot do these things in real time - the plugin is totally unusable. it's like working by guesswork. Your workflow is totally messed up. You MUST be able to press play and tweak to perfection. In fact, if your computer is stretched, adding more plug ins is a very strange thing to do. Sort the hardware!!

I should have kept my questions simpler. I'm not looking for percentages or magical numbers. I'm wanting to understand the difference between using the Mid function turned to mono vs L/R. Like what exactly is the difference and which I should be using for ducking my bass, drums, and percussion instruments.

Shortly after posting this I realized the issue is actually the attack/release settings. Once I turned up the attack speed on my percussion instruments my vocals popped through more and some annoying clicks/noises were gone.

I attempted to solve the hardware/software playback issues for months. Unfortunately there aren't solutions. It boils down to Adobe Audition not being able to handle the amount of layering my tracks have. I have a super powerful PC, but their software just sucks and they refuse to fix anything. My PC only uses like 10% of the CPU, but it won't play a session real time even with just a couple plugins.

 

[rob aylestone]

I have had an adobe subscription for years. Never had a single problem like you are describing. Are you certain it's not just that your drives don;t have the speed required for multiple layers in the quantities you have. Adobe Audition is also not really something designed to do what you do, whereas the usual favourite DAWs, like Cubase, Reaper and the rest do this kind of thing seamlessly. I do stereo recording and editing in audition, but mixing and multi-channel activities I find better outside of it.

 

[purplepeople]

I have had an adobe subscription for years. Never had a single problem like you are describing. Are you certain it's not just that your drives don;t have the speed required for multiple layers in the quantities you have. Adobe Audition is also not really something designed to do what you do, whereas the usual favourite DAWs, like Cubase, Reaper and the rest do this kind of thing seamlessly. I do stereo recording and editing in audition, but mixing and multi-channel activities I find better outside of it.

I spent the day trying to fix it again and succeeded. Thanks for the push!
I figured out that Adobe Audition for whatever reason processes/reads FX plugins even if they aren't in use. I had hundreds turned off/not used FX throughout my projects.
Once I deleted those things significantly sped up.
I was also using Soothe2. Turning the playback resolution to ECO also sped things up.
I now only have minor delay, but it's good enough.
Trackspacer was easy to figure out once I was able to actually listen to the tracks...
I had been trying to fix this for the past six months.... What a relief!

 

[rob aylestone]

I’ve bought loads of kontakt stuff and only realised I also had access to lots of plugins. I’ve not downloaded any of them, I might, to solve an issue. Till then, no. My guitarist friend sends me Cubase files with hundreds of plugins I don’t have, to mix. I think he just falls into the habit of slapping them on automatically!

 

[TimOD]

Yes indeed. You want to avoid using too many plugins if you can help it. I know a lot of "pros" use ungodly amounts of plugs, and I think once you get used to using them, you can't get unused to it. Plus, many of their colleagues use the same plugs, so perhaps they feel the need to use them too.