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witzendoz
Senior Member
The JBL's should be fine for vocals, is there a band that is too loud in the room? Too much stuff cranked up in the mix? What is actually going on? What is the set up?
Cheers
Alan.
Cheers
Alan.
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fris9
New member
The band could be too loud I guess, but I just don't feel like I'm getting the sound that I should get out of the Mackie. I've seen similar mixers that seem to be a lot louder than mine, and I'm just wondering if it is the speakers. I'm only running 2-3 mics into the mixer. I have it about as loud as I can get it before feedback and it doesn't seem to be enough.
witzendoz
Senior Member
If it's feeding back that has nothing to do with how loud the PA can go, it is only to do with how loud it can go before feedback.
Feedback is all to do with mic and speaker positioning (mike not in front of the speakers), and eq of the PA, eq out the offending feedback frequencies. Also eq out unusable frequencies, like below 100hz on vocal channels that use up lots of amp power and sound like mud anyway.
Remember also that the mic will pick up everything around you not just your voice, so try not to stand in front of a loud guitar amp or drum kit. If in a rehearsal room face the band so that the mic is pointing away from the band.
Cheers
Alan.
Feedback is all to do with mic and speaker positioning (mike not in front of the speakers), and eq of the PA, eq out the offending feedback frequencies. Also eq out unusable frequencies, like below 100hz on vocal channels that use up lots of amp power and sound like mud anyway.
Remember also that the mic will pick up everything around you not just your voice, so try not to stand in front of a loud guitar amp or drum kit. If in a rehearsal room face the band so that the mic is pointing away from the band.
Cheers
Alan.
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fris9
New member
So it would help to have 8ohm speakers? Sorry, the ohm thing still kinda confuses me. : )
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pinkieandtherev
New member
That should've signaled a problem right there...most of your dual 15" mains tend to be REAL wattage hogs. Try investing in something around a 1000W PA amp that drives down to 4 or even 2 ohms. We used to use a Peavey CS800 for our mains here at the church, and we had it loud enough in the SP-2s (and clear) that people needed earplugs.
I think the highest wattage powered mixer I've seen is something around 600W, maybe? Use the Mackie as your mixer stage, run it out to a big-ass amp, and let those JBLs out to play. That'd be my idea, anyway. Check eBay for amps; you can probably find something to suit your needs for less than a good new pair of speakers would run.
witzendoz
Senior Member
My Next question would have been amp rating and speaker ohms.
The Mackie is being driven at 4 ohms with the JBL's plugged in so the output is 450 watts per channel, both sides driven.
I do agree the speakers could use a more powerful amp. These powered mixers do not seem to put out any real wattage, I have an old 300 watt a side power amp built in the 1970's that eats these things alive.
You should also have more power in the amp than the speaker rating, I used to have a touring rigg that had amp power over twice speaker rating and never blow a speaker, ie 300 watt speaker = 600 watt amp. This is because most damage is done to speakers by over driving amps and square waving the signal.
Cheers
Alan.
The Mackie is being driven at 4 ohms with the JBL's plugged in so the output is 450 watts per channel, both sides driven.
I do agree the speakers could use a more powerful amp. These powered mixers do not seem to put out any real wattage, I have an old 300 watt a side power amp built in the 1970's that eats these things alive.
You should also have more power in the amp than the speaker rating, I used to have a touring rigg that had amp power over twice speaker rating and never blow a speaker, ie 300 watt speaker = 600 watt amp. This is because most damage is done to speakers by over driving amps and square waving the signal.
Cheers
Alan.
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stevieb
Just another guy, really.
Don't replace anything.
SUPPLEMENT your current setup with a 1500-2000 watt power amp @ 4 ohms, run off the unpowered tap from the mixer. Use that amp to drive your speakers. Also get another pair of speakers that need about 300 watts @ 8 ohms. Think of the the "big" setup for distance, the "small" for close.
Big venue: both setups, with the small setup aimed inward for the close audience members, the big set up beaming out to the cheap seats.
Small venue- small setup (saves your back, too.)
SUPPLEMENT your current setup with a 1500-2000 watt power amp @ 4 ohms, run off the unpowered tap from the mixer. Use that amp to drive your speakers. Also get another pair of speakers that need about 300 watts @ 8 ohms. Think of the the "big" setup for distance, the "small" for close.
Big venue: both setups, with the small setup aimed inward for the close audience members, the big set up beaming out to the cheap seats.
Small venue- small setup (saves your back, too.)
suprstar
It aint ez being green
make sure you dont put too low of a load on your amp, or you'll fry it.. 300w @ 8 ohms will translate into a lot more at 4 ohms, if your amp's circuitry can't handle the power, it will poof.
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fris9
New member
Adding a power amp to what I already have....is that what's considered "slaving"? That does sound like a cheaper alternative. Would I use a line out from my powered mackie to the amp? Just to clarify also, this is strictly for rehearsal type use, not for gigs or a club. I play in a somewhat loud rock band with 2 guitars and I would just like to hear the vocals more than what is currently going on. Also, I've never bought any Behringer equipment but in this case, if all I need is some additional power I might as well go on the cheap. I see Behringer power amps on ebay for 200-300 bucks. Good idea?
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isfahani
Disciple of Wong Jing
Bad idea.
If you're in the USA look on craigslist before ebay - remember power amps can also sometimes be used as boat anchors, and will cost as much as one to ship!
You can often find decent power amps (Mackie, Peavey, Yamaha, Crown, QSC) used at a decent price. I'd pick Gemini DJ products over Behringer stuff any day, esp for amps.
Another thing to check is are the horns in the JBL's blown? Cause if things aren't cutting thru it may be that your high end frequencies are gone.
PS: I have a made in the USA Mackie 808M that does just fine as far as powering both mains and monitors at quite high volumes in small halls.
I was running the monitor amp side with three Yamaha SM15's chained up per side to equal six... I ain't gonna do the math but I would guess that's quite a load. And it was Loud. As. Fuck.
Oh, and another idea: If you can get into the idea of wearing in-ear monitors - Shure SCL3 Sound Isolating Earphones look cheap and decent - or just a decent set of headphones (Closed back or semi closed), then you could run a stereo RCA-to-TRS cable from the "tape/cd" output on the Mackie into a small headphone amp, and get your vox thru there into your ears, with a volume control. I started doing this on smaller stages that wouldn't permit even a small wedge for where my drumkit was set up... It also keeps the stage volume down too.
If you're in the USA look on craigslist before ebay - remember power amps can also sometimes be used as boat anchors, and will cost as much as one to ship!
You can often find decent power amps (Mackie, Peavey, Yamaha, Crown, QSC) used at a decent price. I'd pick Gemini DJ products over Behringer stuff any day, esp for amps.
Another thing to check is are the horns in the JBL's blown? Cause if things aren't cutting thru it may be that your high end frequencies are gone.
PS: I have a made in the USA Mackie 808M that does just fine as far as powering both mains and monitors at quite high volumes in small halls.
I was running the monitor amp side with three Yamaha SM15's chained up per side to equal six... I ain't gonna do the math but I would guess that's quite a load. And it was Loud. As. Fuck.
Oh, and another idea: If you can get into the idea of wearing in-ear monitors - Shure SCL3 Sound Isolating Earphones look cheap and decent - or just a decent set of headphones (Closed back or semi closed), then you could run a stereo RCA-to-TRS cable from the "tape/cd" output on the Mackie into a small headphone amp, and get your vox thru there into your ears, with a volume control. I started doing this on smaller stages that wouldn't permit even a small wedge for where my drumkit was set up... It also keeps the stage volume down too.
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fris9
New member
The horns are fine...those speakers have never even been close to being pushed hard.