need MORE help with vocals

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bucchild

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Okay. I'm in a much better situation now. My vocals don't sound muffled or muddy anymore....I think I was EQ'ing them too much. But I found a new problem. Even though I'm compressing, I still can't avoid clipping.

The guy has a whiskey and cigarettes kind of voice, and when he gets a little raspy, the signal clips. But it sounds great when he's not raspy. And if I set it to where he's not clipping when he gets raspy, everything else sounds too weak.

I'm compressing with a 3630, which I just got. Maybe that's where my problem is. I right now have it set at:

Threshold: 0dB
Ratio: about 10:1
Attack: 5ms
Release: 150ms
Output: about -5dB

and the threshold on the gate is at about -30dB

Any ideas???
 
bucchild said:

I'm compressing with a 3630, which I just got. Maybe that's where my problem is.
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From what I understand, this is the worst piece of shit that has ever been made. Most people say that it is TOTALY unuseable. I got a symetrix cl-100 of ebay for $50. It seems to work really well on vocals. I can get 15db of gain reduction and it still sounds nice. Plus, it has a de-ess on it as well. I have a song in the clinic that I just did. The vocals were sqaushed pretty hard on it cause the singer has some pretty wild fluctuations in volume.
 
So should I go get my money back before it's too late? I think it's gotta have some ability, even if it's not much....even if I do, can I go to guitar center or sam ash and pick up another one for $100 that will be usable?

If I try to stick with the 3630, is there a possibility that I can change my settings to reduce clipping....obviously setting a lower threshold or a higher ratio, but I don't want it to be too squeezed....almost everything else sounds great....except when it clips....
 
You are going to have to wait for someone to come along who has had one of these to tell you the specifics. Or do a search for 3630 here. I'm sure you'll find plenty of horror stories. The impression I get is nothing will sound good through that comp. People have said just passing a signal through it will sound llike crap. You better take it back. Get something else off ebay.

It got the symetrix for $50. I just got a dbx 163x for $51. I haven't received it yet though but I hear they sound nice too.
 
Try recording the loud and soft passages separatly with different gain settings.
 
bucchild said:
I right now have it set at:

Threshold: 0dB
Ratio: about 10:1
Attack: 5ms
Release: 150ms
Output: about -5dB

and the threshold on the gate is at about -30dB

Any ideas???
Click to expand...
I'm not familiar with this piece of equipment, but isn't the threshhold setting the point where the compressor starts to kick in??

If so, with a threshhold of 0db, there is no compression going on at all. I would think you want to pull that down to -10 or -15 db and set the output to -1db or so. Also, 10:1 ratio is pretty strong for vocals. It might be needed, but I would try starting with a gentler setting.
 
If I set the threshold as low as -10dB, everything sounds too squeezed. If my signal stayed below 0dB at all times, I'd have no problem with clipping. I actually have it set somewhere between 0 and -10, but closer to 0. I tried using a ratio less than 10:1, but it didn't do enough. The signal I'm getting sounds great except for when it clips.

As far as trying to record the loud and soft parts separately, I would, but it varies that much within a sentence, sometimes within a word....I guess I could send it out to 2 separate inputs, and record 2 tracks simultaneously.....I just thought of that, that's not a bad idea....I'll hafta try that next time I record with him.....
 
bucchild said:
If I set the threshold as low as -10dB, everything sounds too squeezed.
Click to expand...


That's because it's not a very good compressor. If you can still do it, I'd recommend taking it back and exchanging for a (gasp!) Behringer Composer. Can't believe I'm actually recommending a Behringer product, but in the $100 range, it will serve you much better than the Alesis.
 
If you set the threshold to 0, anything less than a brick wall limiter (ratio of infinity to 1) will either clip or not trigger any compression at all. The threshold is where the compressor begins to work. It is not the highest volume the compressor will alow. When dealing with compressors (as opposed to limiters), the signal goes way over the threshold all the time.
 
Yeah....I just bought it last weekend, taking it back shouldn't be an issue....I hafta go back there to exchange a bass case I also bought, so I'll just pack up the 3630 and get something else....there's a DBX 266XL for $150....is that worth the extra $50 over the behringer....I was thinking about picking that one up in the first place.....
 
I was just searching for threads about the 3630 here last night and found mass amounts of hatred towards it. I was looking because I'd just read about Ed Rose recommending a mod kit for it from Black Lion Audio (if you're not familiar with Ed Rose, he does a good amount of "indie" rock records, and is located in Kansas). I don't know about your level of electronics skills and so on, but the link for the mod is here: http://www.blacklionaudio.com/alesis_3630_modifications.htm

It sells for $115 with schematics and all parts included, and they say its far more comprehensive than the mods discussed at the rec.audio.pro board, so take that for what its worth. Its probably just easier to buy an Autocom or a RNC, but if you're looking for a project that would result in a decent piece of gear, there you go. I would still return the 3630 you have now for something else, and then try to pick one up for $50 or so off of eBay if you feel like attempting to mod it.
 
bucchild said:
there's a DBX 266XL for $150....is that worth the extra $50 over the behringer....I was thinking about picking that one up in the first place.....
Click to expand...

If you can afford $175, then you need to get the RNC from FMR Audio. No question about it.
 
I don't think Sam Ash carries FMR and I'm gonna hafta get something they carry in the store.....that's why I'm leaning towards the dbx
 
Bummer. The dbx isn't bad, though. You'll like it better than the Alesis.
 
bucchild said:
If I set the threshold as low as -10dB, everything sounds too squeezed. If my signal stayed below 0dB at all times, I'd have no problem with clipping. I actually have it set somewhere between 0 and -10, but closer to 0. I tried using a ratio less than 10:1, but it didn't do enough. The signal I'm getting sounds great except for when it clips.
Click to expand...
Everything sounds too squeezed because your ratio is too high.

Reduce the threshhold and reduce the amount of compression. Try going to a -10db or -15db threshhold with a 3:1 ratio or even a 2:1 ration and see it that doesn't sound better.
 
If there is this much deviation in levels, should the singer learn how to work the mic a little better? Ya know, move in on quieter parts, back off on the loud stuff. Then you can track lower and not have it clipping all the time.
 
Thanks for all the help everyone.

I went and exchanged the 3630 for the dbx 266XL. Haven't recorded with the other guy yet, but it definitely seems to be fixing some of the 3630 issues....when i get to record with him again i'll find out.....
 
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