need help with vocals

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bucchild

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I posted a thread before, but didn't really turn out to be too helpful. I hope this time I'll get better results. Read the post from earlier today to see my equipment. I want my vocals to sound better when I record them. They usually sound muffled or muddy. I'm hoping I can improve them with EQ, but I guess I don't knew where to start with EQ'ing vocals. I am wondering if I'm gonna need a pre-amp before my vocals will start to sound good.
 
I looked at your gear from the previous post and even went to the Roland site and looked at the 3100 Pro documentation. It appears that you should be using inputs 1 or 2 for the vocals. These are the ones with the XLR and phantom power inputs. A couple questions:

1. What mics are you using?

2. Are you using channels one and two as your inputs for the vocals?
 
I am using inputs 1 and 2 for vocals. I use a Samson C01 for the vocals. I had the same problem borrowing a friend's AKG C1000, though.

Maybe the problem is in the mics, but I have a feeling that the biggest problem is that I'm recording my own voice, and that makes it hard for me to EQ it properly.

From what you read at the Roland website, does it seem as though the VM-3100 will be a good enough preamp?

I'm not looking for professional quality, I know I don't have the means for that. I'm just looking for a decent demo for myself. I also don't want to disappoint the other guy I'm recording. He's very pleased with everything so far, he loves how his drums, bass, and guitars sound. But next we're recording vocals, and I want that to come though good for him.
 
From what I saw on the Roland Web Site, assuming that they are using the same pre-amps in all their gear, if your vocals are not clear, the problem you are describing is probably not the pre-amps.

I have never used the Samson mic, but I have some experience with the C1000. The C1000 is okay for some things, but on the couple of times I tried to use it for vocals, it sounded kind of brassy. It was also very sensitive to sibilance.

I would recommend trying some different mic techniques. There was a thread a while back talking about that, if you do a search you should be able to find it.

Also, try using a dynamic mic as a comparison, an SM57 would be fine. If you do, be sure to turn off the phantom power for your inputs.
 
Hey Buc - Sorry if the other thread wasn't too helpfull. I guess it wasn't much of a welcome to the board.

I did though suggest a couple of preamps that you could check out and gave a link to a review of the FMR RNP.

Another mic that you could try is the AT3035. Very good mic for the price. I beleive it's less that $200 US.
 
Thanks, so far you've been a lot of help.

I've found the C01 to be better for vocals than the C1000. The Samson is a very inexpensive condenser mic, but I don't think it's the source of my problem. It probably does add to it though. I think my problem is in EQ'ing.

Would an SM58 be slightly better for comparison, since the 58 is pretty much a 57 with a pop filter (or so I've heard)? On that note, would leaving the phantom power on harm the mic, or just harm the sound? I've been safe not to put phantom power into a dynamic mic, but never knew if there was a specific reason. I read somewhere that phantom power does not, however harm most dynamic mics.
 
Vestast, no problem. You were much more helpful than the criticism I was getting in the other thread. I think part of the problem was my delivery. I delivered it as if I was looking at a preamp, but I was actually trying to ask if I needed one for the time being.

I looked at the mic....$199.99....hehe. That is under $200. Definitely something to consider. Also, about how much is the RNP, if you know off hand? Just for consideration.

I'm still hoping someone can give me some more ideas on how to improve the vocals without spending any money. Particularly in the EQ.
 
Here is a reply from your other post (sorry I don't have a price on the RNP) :


Go back to Blue Bears site and check out the articles on EQ and Mixing. There is a little chart in the mixing article that helps explain some of the freequencies.

I'm starting to feel like a PR man for Blue Bear !

http://www3.sympatico.ca/bvaleria/b...ticles/menu.htm
 
bucchild said:
Thanks, so far you've been a lot of help.

I've found the C01 to be better for vocals than the C1000. The Samson is a very inexpensive condenser mic, but I don't think it's the source of my problem. It probably does add to it though. I think my problem is in EQ'ing.

Would an SM58 be slightly better for comparison, since the 58 is pretty much a 57 with a pop filter (or so I've heard)? On that note, would leaving the phantom power on harm the mic, or just harm the sound? I've been safe not to put phantom power into a dynamic mic, but never knew if there was a specific reason. I read somewhere that phantom power does not, however harm most dynamic mics.
Click to expand...

There is really no difference between using the SM58 or SM57 for this. The reason to turn off the phantom power is to be sure that there is no other interference.

As far as EQ, I wouldn't recommend getting too hung up on that. I always try to record vocals without EQing them if possible. The problem with EQ is that as you raise or lower some frequencies, it causes other frequencies to become more apparent in the mix. If you can get the vocal sound you want with good mic techniques, then you can avoid EQ, which in my opinion is the way to go.
 
I'll look at the micing techniques and see if I can improve the quality of the vocals with no IQ. Maybe the problem I was having was that I was EQ'ing at all.

So if I accidentally left the phantom power on, it wouldn't harm my SM 58, correct?
 
It may be easier to improve the quality of vocals with no EQ than with no IQ....oops....hehe.
 
bucchild said:
I'll look at the micing techniques and see if I can improve the quality of the vocals with no IQ. Maybe the problem I was having was that I was EQ'ing at all.

So if I accidentally left the phantom power on, it wouldn't harm my SM 58, correct?
Click to expand...

No it shouldn't harm the SM58. But there is no reason to put voltage on the line, it just incorporates another source of potential noise.
 
I wouldn't intentionally run phantom power to a SM 58, I just wanted to be sure that I wouldn't screw it up if I accidentally forgot to turn it off and plugged in an SM 58.

I can't find the thread on mic techniques for vocals. Could you point me in that direction?
 
Bucchild,

On the other thread, someone gave you some advice / instructions on EQ "sweeping."

Go back and read that.

Also, make sure you're singing in to the right side of the mic. :D I know that's kind of dumb advice, but hey, you never know.

*Make sure you're using a well-treated room, or one that has a good, open sound.

*Make sure you're singing intelligibly.

*Try moving away from the mic somewhat. If you use a pop filter, this should happen naturally. By singing too close, you could be getting some proximity effect buildup, which could exaggerate the bassiness of your voice and in some cases affect intelligibility.
 
When I first started I had a cardioid condenser mic that was difficult to tell front from back... if ya catch my drift. :)
 
I have made the mistake of singing into the wrong side of the mic, but sssshhh, don't tell anyone.

I'm probably gonna hafta try the EQ sweeping suggestion....it sounds like it could help me, but I also hope I can get a better result without EQ....
 
I've used a VM3100 and the preamps are usable so that is probably not the issue. Usually cheap condensors sound more thin and crispy. It's hard to say why your sound is so muffled without hearing it.

What are you monitoring with? Have you played the recordings on any other systems as a double check? What happens to the signal after it leaves the mixer?
 
Tex, I guess you didn't read the other post....lol. I'm monitoring with headphones until I can save up for monitors.

I actually tried recording the other guy's vocals yesterday. I think I fixed a lot of the mud and muffled issue having someone else's voice to record. I tried my own voice through the same settings afterwards and it sounded much better than it did before, but it brought up a NEW issue....I think I'll just post a new thread....
 
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