Need help with lead vocal

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galaxyswan

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I have only worked with mono lead vocals panned dead center in the past, but I have recently gotten the waves jjp vocal plugin which has only a mono-to-stereo component. It seems to want me to pan the vocals hard left and hard right. Is this okay for a lead vocal? This worries me since everything I've read before says pan lead vocals center with bass and kick. What do you guys think?
 
If I copy a track and hard pan LR doesn't it becomes centered. :confused:
What does this plugin do?
 
Personally I'm beyond tired of the hard-panning-stereo gimmick, whether it's used for vocals, guitars or vuvuzela. But frankly, I'm just as tired of people saying that vocals, bass, kick or vuvuzela have to be in the middle. There are are good reasons why those instruments are commonly found in the middle, but that should by no means be considered a hard-and-fast rule.

Do what makes sense to you and/or fits your artistic vision.

G.
 
I agree...there are no rules for panning...Ive been listening to some old albums lately and the bass and snare are not always centered.

Example of bass panned in old Sabbath song...sometimes its panned wide and sometimes more centered...I also hear high hats being panned hard right sometimes as well in old albums...I like the sound of hats panned hard right...gives more of a drummer perspective and not an audience perspective.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2UZCGEjSBqA&feature=related
 
A lot of modern music seem to have vocals centered and also have the vocals panned left and right as well.

one way to get this effect is to do 3 different vocal takes however that would be tough to do and get them to sound a like.

Another way is to duplicate the vocals twice so there are 3 vocal tracks.

Vocal 1 centered
Vocal 2 moved ahead slightly
Vocal 3 moved back slightly

I use Reaper and this is how I do it

Vocal 1-postion-0.12.000

Vocal 2-click on track(press F2 on keyboard) top left change position- 0.12.010

Vocal 3-click on track (press F2 on keyboard) top left change position- 0.11.990

I moved each track by 10...if 10 doesnt work try a different ammount...this will seperate the duplicated tracks and not have them centered anymore when played together.
 
D_Vincent said:
A lot of modern music seem to have vocals centered and also have the vocals panned left and right as well.

one way to get this effect is to do 3 different vocal takes however that would be tough to do and get them to sound a like.

Another way is to duplicate the vocals twice so there are 3 vocal tracks.

Vocal 1 centered
Vocal 2 moved ahead slightly
Vocal 3 moved back slightly

I use Reaper and this is how I do it

Vocal 1-postion-0.12.000

Vocal 2-click on track(press F2 on keyboard) top left change position- 0.12.010

Vocal 3-click on track (press F2 on keyboard) top left change position- 0.11.990

I moved each track by 10...if 10 doesnt work try a different ammount...this will seperate the duplicated tracks and not have them centered anymore when played together.
Click to expand...

Now try pitch shifting one of the time altered tracks up 10 cents, and one down ten cents.......
 
Yup

Split harmonize

Ive been doing that as well however I use + and minus 9 cents...I also delay each one different...one at 14 ms the other at 19.
 
All you're missing then is a little bit of low frequency oscillation and you have a standard stereo chorus.

G.
 
SouthSIDE Glen said:
Personally I'm beyond tired of the hard-panning-stereo gimmick, whether it's used for vocals, guitars or vuvuzela. But frankly, I'm just as tired of people saying that vocals, bass, kick or vuvuzela have to be in the middle. There are are good reasons why those instruments are commonly found in the middle, but that should by no means be considered a hard-and-fast rule.

Do what makes sense to you and/or fits your artistic vision.

G.
Click to expand...

Vuvuzela :laughings:

yeah, listen to old beatles records and hear how a lot of the times panning is all over the place... like vocals totally left for the whole song... and we still remember and love those songs but never noticed it until we listened.

probably so much more creative with panning when there weren't such conventions and standards for it like there seem to be now.
 
Yeah Ive been inspired by some of the old beatles recordings when it comes to mixing.

this song isnt done yet and its a collaboration in progress however I used beatles songs as my reference in regards to mixing.

Still lots of work to be done however I like how it sounds except for the crackle on vocals at beginning...its a tracking issue that needs redoing.

Also the track will brighten up a bit in the mastering process.

http://www.lightningmp3.com/live/file.php?id=25588
 
Well, with some of that old early 60's stuff it wasn't so much creative panning as it was having an early mixing console that only had two- or three-position panning switches instead of continuous potentiometers. That combined with stereophonic album playback still being kind of a novelty and the labels wanting to sell the more expensive stereophonic records, caused much of the thought of the day to push an "exaggerated" stereo playback.

But you're right, it still was good with the listeners.

G.
 
galaxyswan said:
I have only worked with mono lead vocals panned dead center in the past, but I have recently gotten the waves jjp vocal plugin which has only a mono-to-stereo component. It seems to want me to pan the vocals hard left and hard right. Is this okay for a lead vocal? This worries me since everything I've read before says pan lead vocals center with bass and kick. What do you guys think?
Click to expand...

Hi. I dont think that is what your plugin is forcing you to do. I think it is panning the wet mix of any stereo effect left and right and leaving the mono processed effects centred.
 
CFox said:
Hi. I dont think that is what your plugin is forcing you to do. I think it is panning the wet mix of any stereo effect left and right and leaving the mono processed effects centred.
Click to expand...

I think this is what is actually happening. I just didn't understand what was going on. The vocals still sound centered with the effect on and hard panning, but the stereo image seems much larger.
 
Glen, love your avatar and your user title. Excellent!
 
I was in the physio place last week and the ceiling speakers were split far apart. Was listening to some 80's tune and relaized half the music was in the other speaker which was on the other side of the room and I couldn't hear it. :laughings:
 
ido1957 said:
I was in the physio place last week and the ceiling speakers were split far apart. Was listening to some 80's tune and relaized half the music was in the other speaker which was on the other side of the room and I couldn't hear it. :laughings:
Click to expand...
Well it wouldn't be a problem if they'd stuck with mono and wax cylinders instead of all this stereo rubbish. Sheet music forever !
 
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