Need Help With Building My Rack!!

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_mat_

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Hey guys, I’m new to this site as well as somewhat new to recording. I recently bought a Digi002 rack system, and I’m looking to build upon that this summer. I’m currently trying to spend about $1500 on whatever will be the most useful in recording “metal” bands. I own some basic mics (Sm57, Samson C01, C05, Nady drum mic set) but nothing spectacular. I’ve been looking for things which will fit in my rack case, so that I can just take the whole rack place to place and record bands. Is there any special mics I should invest in, as well preamps that I should invest in? Remember, I’m looking for what will give me a good sound for the metal bands I’m recording, as well as equipment that will work with my digi002r and fit into my rack system. Please feel free to give all suggestions, and hit me up with any questions that might help out with deriving some answers. Thanks a lot guys, I look forward to hearing some good advice!

Mat Olivo
 
For sure you will need Compressors/gates, unless you use the ones in your software. And you also should invest in a good rack of preamps, cause I heard that the ones in the 002 are not very great great. That's the basics of a good rack. Somebody can surely helps more than me !
 
I'd invest in a good EQ (and of course the Compressor if you want that loud distortion with out blowing the listeners ears off). The EQ will give you a ton of control. I use a two channel 31band EQ and its the first piece of equipment all my sources hit before I record (well, most of the time anyway). I got mine for about 200 bucks. You wont regret it. Also, I would SUGGEST a power conditioner. I didn't use one for a very long time (just power strips) and after installing the one I have now, I don't know how I got along w/ out it. A decent patch bay may be somthing to think about. But not required. I like the flexibility of having one and being able to re-rout signals quick and easy. And last, but not least, GOOD CABLES. Once you start building a rack system of any size, troublshooting a crummy cable SUCKS !!!!!! :mad: So, do yourself and your gear a favor and buy good quality cables. Belive me, the torture you will avoid in doing so is well worth it.
 
Outboard gear? A.R.T. Prl VLA for the comp. Great on the 2-buss. Was $229 online, now at MF $299. Still a steal for a decent piece of equipment if you're looking to build.
Not that everyone else's opinions matter, but check out the search for Pro VLA and check the history.
 
you need a compressor first off to make sure nothing clips before it gets into pro tools. The VLA would probably be pretty good for live stuff. Preamps will be a must. You need some good preamps to go with that 002r. You could afford several channels of m-audio dmp3s or some focusrite preamps. I would take some of that money you have for rack gear and get some decent mics. The sm-57 is useful, but you will also need things like a kick drum mic (akg d-112, electrovoice re-20), overhead mics, (mxl 603s, Studio Projects c4, rode ntk), and possibly some decent vocal mics. Vocal mic choices really depend on your budget.
 
Ayeee! Where to start?

For sure you will need Compressors/gates, unless you use the ones in your software.
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No, you do not need compressors or gates. If you're inexperienced, best leave that for mixdown, and software compressors are likely more than adequate for what you are doing.

And you also should invest in a good rack of preamps, cause I heard that the ones in the 002 are not very great great.
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They're not great, but they're useable. I'd say to get a couple of channels of good preamps, and spend the rest on mics.

I'd invest in a good EQ (and of course the Compressor if you want that loud distortion with out blowing the listeners ears off). The EQ will give you a ton of control. I use a two channel 31band EQ and its the first piece of equipment all my sources hit before I record (well, most of the time anyway). I got mine for about 200 bucks. You wont regret it.
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On the contrary, putting a cheap graphic EQ in the signal path of everything you record will most certainly lead to regrets. DO NOT DO THAT! Skip the outboard EQ. Use software EQ if you need it.

Outboard gear? A.R.T. Prl VLA for the comp. Great on the 2-buss.
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2-buss? Forget it. At your budget level, keep it in the box. Focus on a good front end instead. Garbage in / garbage out. You'll get the most milage out of good mics and pres.

you need a compressor first off to make sure nothing clips before it gets into pro tools.
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That's what the input level control is for. Don't track with compression. Front end. Front end. Front end.

You could afford several channels of m-audio dmp3s or some focusrite preamps.
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I wouldn't bother substituting cheap preamps for other cheap preamps. Maybe go for a 2-channel RNP (~$450) or a 4-channel Sytek (~$750). Spend the rest on some dynamic mics (SM7, at $300 is often a killer vocal mic for metal if coupled with a good pre), D4 or D6 for kick, a couple of small-diaphragm condensors (MXL 603's, SPC4's, Oktavas) and some SM-57's. That should all be within your limit.
 
yeah i think you're right, i shouldn't really worry too much about outboard gear yet, i'm only trying to get stuff to use for doing some pretty good demos for bands. I purposely bought the 002 because at my school, i'm being taught on pro tools, so i'd like to try and have something that i could use to do my homework and assignments with. I also have been hearing really good things about the Presonus Digimax LT with 8 preamps and lightpipe connection to my 002. Does anyone know anything about that product?? I found it brand new online for about $899 and the guy selling it is giving away a ART power conditioner and choice of microphone (he has some akg's, at's, and audix mics). The way i look at is is, i can get all three of the things that everyone listed, for less than a grand. I would be getting the Preamp which would help with bringing a little warmth to my recordings. Then i'd have the power conditioner which would help me out with my power supply, and lastly i'd be able to get a pretty decent mic (AKG D-112 AUDIX D6 Mic, AKG C1000s, AKG C2000, AudioTechnica AT3035, OR AT4041). They all come with the product if you do the buy it now option. What does everyone think though, is it worth it to pay the $899 for that stuff, and have some money to buy better mics or should i spend my money an entirely different way?

Also, thank you to everyone who's been trying to help me! You guys are the reason why i find myself at this site all hours of the day...trying to make myself as good as i can be before i start my classes in audio engineering this fall :)
 
i reall disagree with you nkjanssen.Im sorry. With metal a compressor during tracking would help a lot. A lot of metal songs go from like a quiet un-distorted bar chord strumming to all out distortion hell. Without a compressor all i can say is clippin clipping clipping.

I agree with your Outboard eq. answer

Agree with the sytek.

But for 180 dollars an RNC would be a great buy.
 
Bahrain_Phill said:
Also, I would SUGGEST a power conditioner. I didn't use one for a very long time (just power strips) and after installing the one I have now, I don't know how I got along w/ out it.
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why? im not challenging your opinion. Its just that i currently dont have one and you say it improves your sound and i dont understand how, maybe ill h ave to get one.
 
Elmo89m said:
i reall disagree with you nkjanssen.Im sorry. With metal a compressor during tracking would help a lot.
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Preventing clipping is never a good reason to use a compressor in tracking, for at least two reasons. Firstly, a compressor isn't going to catch the transient spikes that cause most of the clipping. For that, you'd need a limiter. An RNC won't cut it in that application. It's not fast enough. Secondly, with modern A/D converters, it's just not necessary to be recording so close to full scale that clipping occurs. A compressor will change your sound. If you like that sound enough that you want to commit it to tape without having any possibility of undoing it or changing it later, cool. But, if you are just trying to avoid clipping, turn the input level down so that you don't clip. It's not going to degrade the sound, and it will give you much more flexibility later.

BTW, distortion is a form of compression. A highly distorted electric guitar will, by definition, already be severely compressed. If you have one guitar playing both clean and heavily distorted parts, just turn down the input volume so that the spikes of the clean guitar don't distort and then level match so that the distorted guitar doesn't exceed that level either. That's really the best way to do it.
 
Hey, whoever asked the question, I'm doing the same thing you're trying to do! Dont' bother with extras, focus on the clarity of the natural sound. All you need are great sounding instruments, mics and pre amps and your set. I'm on the same budget too (what a coincidence) and I'm getting a new mixer (soundcraft m12) cuz i hear the pre's kick ass. My mixing is done with software... any outboard accessory basically, and it works wonders. Work on getting the sound recorded and recorded GOOD then work on perfecting it with compression/eq
 
Power Conditioner

A power conditioner will not change or better your sound directly (unless your trying to fix a ground hum). I have had several pieces power supplies burn fuses or all out pop due to irregular voltages. I am SURE its due to where I am and the old building I am living in. However, I didnt buy one unil I had lost three power supplies (my keyboard (easy fix), Tape Deck (not so easy fix), and my rack lights (another easy fix) ) Sometimes power fluctuations caused my old MR-8 to reboot. What was strange is that not everything would power down ( I can only assume because each piece of I had at the time was more or less sensitive to the fluctuations) All in all, I spent about 75$ replacing power supplies and pulled a hair or two outta my head trying to figure out the MR-8 problem. I spent 40 bucks on a power conditioner and havn't had ANY problems.
Concerning the EQ. I really dig my Graphic. I have never used a Parametric in my set up, so I cannot comment on it being any better. However, the ammount of control I can obtain over any given source is phenominal. I rout everything to my patch bay and when needed I patch it in an presto ... i have full control.
 
nkjanssen said:
But, if you are just trying to avoid clipping, turn the input level down so that you don't clip. It's not going to degrade the sound, and it will give you much more flexibility later.
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I'm with you on this one. Don't worry about volume at the tracking stage. record at conservative levels and leave the 'loudening' process to the mastering stage. Headroom is a wonderful thing. :)

In fact I agree that there's not any need for outboard processing/effects at all for your average homerecor at the tracking stage. Some of the pro guys use comp and eq on the way in but they have shit hot gear (which doesn't add a load of noise to the audio) and they really know what they're doing with it.

A parametric EQ is a lot more useful to me when recording than a graphic.
 
And for the anonymous dipshit who gave me a negative rep point with the comment "wrong", do you care to explain why?
 
I would start by looking for an 8 channel preamp with ADAT lightpipe to add 8 more channels of simultaneous recording capability to your setup. You mentioned the PreSonus one...you might also want to look at the M-Audio Octane and find out what others have to say about that. I think it runs a couple hundred bucks less, but it might not be as good in quality either. If you're going to be tracking multiple musicians at once you need to consider setting up cue mixes and monitoring. It could be a solution as simple as a Behringer headphone amp, or taking it a step further and getting a "control room" unit like the Presonus Central Station. You'll also need headphones for the musicians...you can get cheap phones from AKG, Sennheiser, and Sony, or contact Harvey Gerst about some of his MoreMe phones. And don't forget about monitors...you'll want a decent pair so that you can hear what you've got going on when you track and mix.

If I was in your situation, I would A) save up about $500 more, or commit to that much more on the credit card payment; B) get a Presonus Central Station; C) get the best set of powered monitors I could find in the $500 ballpark; D) get a Behringer Powerplay headphone amp with three pairs of cheap headphones and one good set (Beyer, Sony, AKG, A-T, etc); E) get a good power conditioner to handle everything; and F) spend the remaining money on the best 8 channel preamp with ADAT Lightpipe that I could find. Lets see:

Central Station $500
Monitor budget $500
Headphone amp $100
3 pairs MoreMe $100
1 pair Sony cans $100
Power Cond. $100-$150

Assuming an 8% sales tax, allthis would come in at just over $1500. Take the rest and find the best preamp you can. If need be, ditch the headphone amp for now because the Presonus has two headphone outputs and I think the 002R has one as well. Don't be afraid to test the used market, you might find some bargains that save you a couple bucks. Also, don't forget to factor in cabling costs...they add up quick.

After you have all that, start looking at improving your mic selection, and maybe adding in some good plug-in suites.
 
Heres the list -

1x M-Audio Tampa
1x RNP
1x RNC
1x Groove Tubes Brick
 
sorry dude christ i was just joking who ever gave me bad rep .....sorry man
 
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