Need help in vocal mix......

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wannabee

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OK guys,

I recorded vocals with my Pro Audio 9. I got a good sound level. No noise everthing is cool. Here's my problem:

How do I make it sound better? I tried the FX reverb with various defaults..ie..club, room, live ect..But they all sound amaturish, (this coming from an amatuer). I also tried the CX reverb defaults...nahhh....just ok somewhat.

Anyone care to share some tips on effects for a decent mixdown on vocal tracks? I need all the ideas I can get.

Oh yeah, I got Scott R. Garrigus's book Cakewalk Power...great help tool on how to use Pro Audio 9...thanks guys for the referal!
 
my 2 cents-

start by visualizing (audiolizing?) in your mind the vocal sound you are trying to get. I have no idea what that is, or what type of music performance you are trying to capture.

but shooting in the dark, I would start with maybe some compression, try the demos from dbAudioware, they have a nice dynamics package with very useful presets. some dynamics or compression processing will help smooth out the vocal to a more even professional sound.

consider doubling-up your tracks, and panning to the outside of your L,R channels. it's best if you record 2 passes, but if you're lazy copy one and offset it a bit to get a doubling effect.

I have yet to find a good sounding software reverb plugin that isn't hideously expensive, or has some obtuse engineer interface. But if you work the Cakewalk FX reverb plugins (v2 is better) you might be able to get something acceptable, if it's a subtle effect.

But if you want that professional rich deep reverb effect like Tony Bennett I'm not sure you'll find it at this pricepoint. Maybe consider an outboard rack unit ala Lexicon.

good luck, these may all be stupid suggestions in context of what you're trying to do, but maybe it'll help.
 
Nope! Nothing stupid. I'm an amatuer.....all ideas are welcomed.
I will give your ideas a wack. It's better than what I've come up with.
 
Here's what I can offer...

The number one mistake made by beginning recordists is adding too much reverb. Here are some general tips that may help you:

1. Use less reverb.
2. Lengthen the pre-delay on your reverb. Often the reverb will walk all over the dry signal and wash it out. By putting a lengthening the pre-delay (the time that elapses between the original sound when the reverb starts) you allow the dry signal to sneak through and sound more present before the reverb starts. If you reverb doesn't have a pre-delay control, you should try and get one that does. I highly recommend UltraFunk Sonitis (http://www.ultrafunk.com). It's 50 bucks. There are also some free ones out there.
3. Use a 'spreader'. You can do this with digital delay, but I prefer to do it this way: Record one main vocal track. Then record another track singing the exact same thing. Now take that second track and drag copy it onto a third track. Slide the third track forward 5 ticks. Slide the second track backward 5 or so ticks. Now pan those two tracks hard L and R and turn their volumes down so that they are just perceptable in the mix. Now you have a main vocal track down the center and a very subtle chorusing effect that really spreads the vocal out. I often EQ the spreader tracks with a little extra highs and less mids than the main track, and add chorus to them.

Good luck
Aaron
http://www.aaroncheney.com
 
Aron, Heinz,

Thank you very much. I got both Sonitis and db Audiowares pluggin packs. I see them in Cakewalk's audio menu.

Guys I am a total amatuer when it comes to home recording and my engineering skills are null. I know how to work the programs, but when you guys talk to me about.....

'You can do this with digital delay, but I prefer to do it this way: Record one main vocal track. Then record another track singing the exact same thing. Now take that second track and drag copy it onto a third track. Slide the third track forward 5 ticks. Slide the second track backward 5 or so ticks. Now pan those two tracks hard L and R and turn their volumes down so that they are just perceptable in the mix. Now you have a main vocal track down the center and a very subtle chorusing effect that really spreads the vocal out.....'

Or....

'consider doubling-up your tracks, and panning to the outside of your L,R channels. it's best if you record 2 passes, but if you're lazy copy one and offset it a bit to get a doubling effect....'

It's like speaking another language. I'm learning guys and all this is important stuff for me. Although I hope the terms you guys use would be a little more easier for me to comprehend. Either way I find your suggestions extremely useful.....


Anyone else want to give their two cents worth?
 
Less is more!!!!!!!!!!! never forget that. It is the hardest lesson to learn in mixing. all of the presets that I have found in pro suite 9 are way to much. On all of the effects always start at the low end, keep them very quiet. The chorus is very bad so keep it very low. Set the speed and the depth of the chorus to almost nothing. reverb and delay have to be adjusted to the timing of the song but in any case keep the wet mix very low. I generaly use a mix of chorus reverb and some times delay or visa versa. The one thing I can tell you for sure is that if you do not have a good condenser/vocal mic you will have a hard time ever getting a good vocal recording. There is a world of difference between a good live mic and a good condensor mic. You should strive to have a great sounding recording with no EQ and very little effects. As far as the performance part, keep the same distance and direction tward the microphone while recording. Use a pop filter or some pantyhose stretched over a hanger or nitting hoop about 3 to 4 inches in front of the mic. Try to keep level air pressure while singing. the key is to eleminate as many problems as possible before the signal hits the tape.

and finally my the best tips.

1: never mix your own vocals while singing. You can mix post recording if you like but never prerecording if at all possible

2: Get a good condensor mic, once you have one record flat with no EQ.

3: use lowest level effects possible.

4: Take vocal lessons!!! One of the best things I ever did was take vocal lessons. If you get the right teacher it will open your eyes and you will say " Why didn't I think of that, It is so simple."
 
wannabe, it's going to take some time to get it right so take the time to all sorts of things (like the double and triple tracking and compression mentioned earlier).

once you learn how to work the bare tracks and then the different effects then you'll be able to answer this important question:

THIS IS WHAT I HAVE... THAT IS WHAT I WANT... TO GET THAT INSTEAD OF THIS DO I RE-RECORD THE PART OR USE FX.

once you get to the point where you can answer that question, you'll be better for it. having said that, i've got some questions for you: what vocals are you talking about lead or background? how many vocal tracks for lead, and how many for background?
 
Another 2cents...


I use an Alesis 3630 ahead of my computer. I squash the signal at 4-1 and use an Ibenez digital delay patched into my outboard mixer. I've been asked how I accomplish my warm full recordings and my only reply is lots of compression. Oh yeah, it took a lot of experimentation before I found the formula. It would be very hard to explain how to get the sound your looking for. My best advice is hang out here and keep asking questions. Perseverence and diligence will eventually pay off.
 
Thanks guys!

Experimenting is the key huh?

Anyone know how to eliminate some bleed thru? When I recorded a vocal track somehow some light background bleedthru got in. I'd hate to re-do it again, it's a good vocal track. But if it can't be cleaned up I guess I won't have a choice. Any ideas guys, gals?

Oops, I forgot Crosstudio, They're back-up vocals.....
 
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