Need Help about my setup

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Xprime4

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Hi there,

I'd like to reccord vocals performance at home. Here's what i've got so far

-Computer
-M-Audio Audiophile 192 Audio card using line in and line out (into an avr receiver in which my headphone are hooked up)
-A cheap Behringer xenyx 502 microphone preamp
-A Shure Beta 58M microphone


I used to reccord like 10 years ago and i was using cool edit pro. What would be a 'modern' alternative to it? I'd like to keep it as simple as possible but still have processing available within the software. Easy multitrack reccording is a must

Would i gain alot from switching my cheap microphone preamp with something else? Or is it just minimal in this setup

There's no room treatmean and the room is 12x12. I tried to stay away as much as the computer to avoid noise. Any other suggestion? What distance is prefered (RnB reccording mainly). I see all artist singer half an inch of the microphone, but i guess they have some low pass filter processing somewhere...

Also As now i can't heard my voice while singing because i had to cut the microphone playback volume in windows since it has a delay. What could fix this? I guess that if i find balanced wire to adapt to my hd650 i could do something.

Are the senheiser hd650 good for recording? or are closed headphone better


Thanks alot, i'm glad that i've found this forum, count me as a new member :)
 
Considering the software, just google "top 15 DAWs" or similar and see the lists, then download the demos of the ones you're interested in, compare them, and choose the one that suits you the best.

As for microphones, a condenser microphone with a large membrane is usually more recommended than a dynamic microphone (which you own now) when recording studio vocals (except when you want to record loud rock vocals). It's possible to get a good condenser at a good price, so give it a chance.

I hope you get help on the rest of the questions.
 
Do a lot of reading before buying anything more. The delay you are hearing from your mic is called 'latency' and is a function of your soundcard, but your soundcard and DAW have settings that can be changed to reduce that. A good audio interface woudl eliminate the latency in monitoring by allowing direct monitoring (listening to the input, not the osund that is going into the computer then back out again).
 
So far i've got the 'direct monitoring' by just adding my 1/4 jack headphone jack in the 'phone' out of the behringer microphone preamp.
That way i hear my voice in direct, but i still need to hook up the mic preamp to the headphone out of my AVR to hear the music at the same time for reccording... obviously it also reccord the music 2x

any way to get over this little problem without buying any other piece of equipment for now?
 
A half-decent audio interface will give you a better mic preamp than what is in the Behr Xenyx and allow you to direct monitor the mic WHILE hearing the music tracks already recorded. You should be able to set your DAW/soundcard settings for minimal latency, though.
 
The AP 192 was an improved version of the highly successful M-A 2496. Better converters, lower nose and increased dynamic range plus balanced I/O. I have 3 2496s and am very happy with them but I always aspired to a 192!

The reason for the above preamble is that it would be a shame not to use such a high quality card, I doubt that many current AIs better the converter quality and almost none will touch it for low latency. So, IN THIS INSTANCE, I would eschew an external AI and look for a better mixer. The Allen & Heath Zed range are excellent. I have the Zed 10 feeding a 2496 and it performs beautifully.

The Z10/192 combo would give you absolutely latency free monitoring via the mixer's headphone outs, you can even add reverb to the monitored signal (but not the recorded) if you wish. Or you can route one of the two outputs of the 192 back to the mixer and monitor that way. Note: the 192/2496 cards have a "Mon Mix" selection which feeds the INPUT of the card out. Thus no delay (it also allows you to record any sound going thru the computer.)

There are other good mixers of course, Soundcraft and a little bit down the scale Yamaha, Mackie.
Behringer get a bad press, not always deserved IMHO and that mixer is probably pretty good for general home recording use but the AP192 deserves something better!

And, just my personal view, I would not go for a large, side address microphone in such a small, untreated room. One of the Shure dynamic range? SM7b is said to be very good if rather pricey!

Dave.
 
So what should i upgrade first the mixer or the microphone?

and what are you guy using as a reccording software. I don't want to go through 15 trials ;),

I'll check into that Allen & Heath Zed range , i pretty much all need vocal reccording so no use for a 10 line in mixer.
 
Xprime4 said:
So what should i upgrade first the mixer or the microphone?

and what are you guy using as a reccording software. I don't want to go through 15 trials ;),

I'll check into that Allen & Heath Zed range , i pretty much all need vocal reccording so no use for a 10 line in mixer.
Click to expand...

Heh! The Z10 is the smallest mixer in the range but as with many things (remember VCRs?) they tend to put on a lot of bells and whistles you don't need. That said, my ten is the usb FX version. This allows one to have reverb (say) in your cans whilst recording for a bit of "ego boost" but record dry and with zero latency. If you don't want or need that facility there is a model without FX.

You can never have too many inputs (or cables). Trust me on this.

Back to headphones. No, if you want to do the above, i.e. wear cans whilst recording, you will need close back types but since these are just "to let you know" they can be pretty rough a'ed jobbies. The Sennheiser HD202s are actually MUCH better than "ra" for 20 quid or so.

Software? Well you could just use Audacity but I think you would find it a bit limiting. Agreed there is no point in spending out on one of the majors so Reaper is the probably the best fit but do try out Samplitude Silver. Totally free, limited to 8 (4 stereo) tracks but otherwise a proper job. Has a very comprehensive MP3 encoder in it and a Cloud publishing facility.

But you don't have to sweat for days with the trials! Just download one at a time and give it a do. If you cannot get it doing basic recording and playback, exporting, editing etc. in an hour or so, ditch it and move on. What are you using at present?

Dave.
 
Ok i'll try Reaper at first and see where i'm going with it

I see the z10 is around 250-350$ Is this the best money i can invest in my system as a first step? I really don't see why would i need more than an xlr input. would it use my spdif in/out from the m-audio 192?

What about the microphone?
 
Xprime4 said:
Ok i'll try Reaper at first and see where i'm going with it

I see the z10 is around 250-350$ Is this the best money i can invest in my system as a first step? I really don't see why would i need more than an xlr input. would it use my spdif in/out from the m-audio 192?

What about the microphone?
Click to expand...

Always hard to say what is "best" but you have a very high quality sound card there and I don't think you can better an A&H mixer for that money? Had you NOT got the M-A192 and instead be using some SoundBlaster abortion, I would not have hesitated in saying "get rid and buy a decent interface!"

The 192 will connect via its balanced inputs to the ZED10's balanced XLR outputs so you will need XLR to TRS cables (how's your soldering?) .
The return from the 192 will go to the "play back" inputs on the Zed.

N.B. all these ins and outs are balanced and at sensibly low impedance so you could have very long leads twixt mixer and computer should the need arise. In any event you should end up with a very quiet system indeed.

Just want to mention. Keep a weather eye out for a second hand M-A Fast track pro (and only that name) because this is one of very few usb AIs that can run without a PC, i.e. "standalone" and can thus operate as an analogue to S/PDIF converter which means the digital inputs of the 192 could give you two more inputs.

This...
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Rapid-Cables-Balanced-Female-Stereo/dp/B007WPI832
Is what you will need but you can probably get longer/better price if you look around.

Dave.
 
It looks like a nice mixer, i'll go with it but i might look into a used one for now... or until I get the money for a new one
 
I'm using a 192 and it is about as zero latency(Wet) for that price range you can buy. I do use a small Mackie mixer to manage inputs. It cost a couple hundred, has everything one needs. But, I only record alone and in mono. So, at this point in time I only need two channel. So, if you are getting latency, then adjust your buffers. I use the 192 headphone out to a HP4 so in case there are a few people recording. But I find the setup just fine for a solo/home recorder entry level setup.
 
I'm not quite sure I understand how i'll get the best sound out of it.

Does the usb out has a use with my m-audio 192?
how do i get the best signal, can i just buy the wire without building it myself?

thanks
 
Xprime4 said:
I'm not quite sure I understand how i'll get the best sound out of it.

Does the usb out has a use with my m-audio 192?
how do i get the best signal, can i just buy the wire without building it myself?

thanks
Click to expand...

Sorry X you have lost me there!

Dave.
 
Xprime4 said:
I'm not quite sure I understand how i'll get the best sound out of it.

Does the usb out has a use with my m-audio 192?
how do i get the best signal, can i just buy the wire without building it myself?

thanks
Click to expand...

Yeah, I am lost now too...

Maybe he is talking about making his own cables? May be a language thing..
 
indeed french in my main language, sorry about all the confusion

would the usb out from the zed10fx has any use in my setup? if not what's the best way to get the sound to my soundcard?

where can i buy build cable (i won't be doing soldering... too complicated for me )

:)
 
Xprime4 said:
indeed french in my main language, sorry about all the confusion

would the usb out from the zed10fx has any use in my setup? if not what's the best way to get the sound to my soundcard?

where can i buy build cable (i won't be doing soldering... too complicated for me )

:)
Click to expand...

No, the usb feed from the ZED10 would not have any practical use. The 192 is fed from the XLR male outs and connect via TRS (aka "stereo") jack plugs. I gave a link to some on page 1.

You then need to get a signal back from the 192 for monitoring. This needs a pair of TRS to TRS leads. (again, aka stereo) and would connect the output of the card to the "Playback" jacks on the ZED (and in fact this disables the usb return signal).

Soldering too complicated? Never! You will come to a very sudden, shuddering halt in your recording progress if you do not gain some basic electronics skills*..Bloody learn!!

French eh? My son is over there. Gardening, teaching guitar and playing in the bars and food places at nights and getting pissed a lot. Are you in France now?

*Or, unless you are very, very rich and IF you are PM me. That cable set I will personally hand build for you and rub down with snake oil. Shall we say 100 euros a cable not including postage?

(Just for completeness sake, the ZED10 is a very GOOD 16 bit usb "AI" and could be use very successfully as a location mixer/feed with a laptop for recording a small group. Something I intend to try out one day)
Dave.
 
ok i just ordered one along with some akg 550 for monitoring

what wire should i use from the zed10fx to the m-audio 192? same for 192 to zed10fx.

thanks in advance
 
Xprime4 said:
ok i just ordered one along with some akg 550 for monitoring

what wire should i use from the zed10fx to the m-audio 192? same for 192 to zed10fx.

thanks in advance
Click to expand...

Mixer to sound card= XLR3 to TRS (stereo) jack.

Sound card to mixer=TRS to TRS.

Dave.
 
I received the unit this afternoon, seems like a great product :)

I haven't bought any cable for now but will this week.

So far i'm not using the main mix out Balanced output but the reccording out (those with rca)
As for playback from the computer i'm using the St-1b (rca again)

what's the difference with the reccord out and the main mix? what about the 'playback in' and the st-1b input?

They also state in the manual that i can use the usb out from my computer to output the music playback into the zed unit. How does that work i can't get anything out of it. Computer does detect the unit

thanks
 
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