Need Digital Delay help please

[jw1]

Hello,

I'm music directing a theatre piece and the score includes a canon one of the characters sings with himself. His singing echos in a cave on strict quarter beat offsets, and specifically calls for a digital delay to accomplish this. My trouble is ... I think I can't get my Alesis MidiVerb 4 to handle the job.

I'm including a snippet of the score that shows how the character sings one measure and then it's repeated once, twice, and thrice. (Also, note that the Harmonica is also on the same DDL ... so the thing needs multiple inputs.)

I am looking for suggestions on what kind of equipment and technique could be used to accomplish this. As we're getting close to production and I've not been able to track down this answer elsewhere, I'm getting kind of concerned about the time

Thank you very much!
jw1

 

[ocnor]

I think that your best bet would be to record that part ahead of time and set up a player that will play the track at the touch of a button. A laptop computer would be ideal for this.

 

[boingoman]

See if you can rent a TC Electronic D2. It has a tap function which allows the delay time to be set on the fly by the FOH person. Otherwise, the musicians will have to play to a click track so the delay repeats are in tempo. It also has the ability to set the exact number of repeats. And it has two inputs- but the more common way to do this is to feed one input from an aux send on the mixer that has all the sources you need processed fed into it.

 

[Obstacle1]

I'm not sure if this would definately work but a Boss DD-6 has Stereo L/R inputs and outputs so you could run the same effect time, feeding the vocals through one channel and the harmonica through the other. It also has a tap tempo function so u can adjust tempo via that. May work...

 

[SonicAlbert]

That's something better done pre-recorded or live to a click track. I don't think tap tempo is going to cut it unless "close enough" is okay.

Remember that the delay you will be using is for a whole bar of music, not quarter notes. So unless you have a delay box that you can tap quarters and have it come out whole notes, tapping quarters probably won't work.

A lot of composers, arrangers, etc. in musical theater are not technically savvy when it comes to pro audio. So while the concept may seem simple to them, as in "use a digital delay to make an echo", actually making it work can be a lot more complex.

You really have three options:

1. Pre-record the delay sections and conduct the orchestra to them when you get there. This can be tricky because you will need to rely on someone to trigger the recording, and if it is off it can be awkward to jump the orchestra to that spot. There will almost certainly be some sort of adjusting necessary.

2. Use a click track for that number. You would have a headset, and probaby the drummer too, and this would allow for precise cueing of the echo recording, because it would be on the other track from the click. So left woud be click and right would be the music.

3. The third option is the easiest and also the sloppiest. But it could very likely be "good enough". You would set the tempo of the song (with a metronome) and also have that tempo setup as a preset in the delay box. When you get to the echo section you would just listen to the house sound and adjust your tempo to match if you are a little off.

But remember, it is not a quarternote delay for this section, it's a whole note delay.

 

[boingoman]

Remember that the delay you will be using is for a whole bar of music, not quarter notes..

Yeah, I didn't catch that.

 

[Obstacle1]

Yeah me neither...

 

[jw1]

Good afternoon all,

Thank you for the quick and helpful responses!

There is, unfortunately, no capacity for click track and recording, and although I've never worked with that I am very curious about how to make that work (will have to research).

I've gotten hands on a TC Electronic D2 (well, it's coming tomorrow) so will jump in and see how that works.

Being really uninformed about how tap delay is driven, I didn't at all consider SonicAlbert's excellent observation about whole v. quarter. I expected to be able to say "I'm in 4/4 time here" (or [5/4 3/4] as is the case later) and hit quarters and it would Do The Right Thing.

It isn't clear from the online information whether I'll have that kind of luck with the D2, but again, I thank you all for your kind and helpful feedback!

Most sincerely,
jw1

 

[SonicAlbert]

The D-Two is a very good digital delay box, and it has long enough delays to handle what you need it to do. It may be possible to set the D-Two to tap quarters and have it come out as whole notes. But it's perhaps more likely that you won't be able to do that.

So option number three from my earlier post is the way you should go in my opinion:

Once you've set the tempo with the actor, director, and choreographer, use a metronome to determine exactly what that is. Then create a delay preset in the D-Two that reflects a bar of music at that tempo. If it were me, I'd keep a metronome in the pit and every night I'd check the tempo before I started that number. That will get you very close. Then, once you hear the actual delay in that section of the song, you can make whatever small adjustment is necessary at that point.

I personally would not under any circumstances attempt to do a tap tempo thing while the show was going on. If you set the tempo at the start of the tune with a metronome it should come out pretty close, and then you can just leave the D-Two where it belongs, with the sound mixer or in the stage manager's booth, depending on how the theater is set up.

 

[jw1]

This:

Once you've set the tempo with the actor, director, and choreographer, use a metronome to determine exactly what that is. Then create a delay preset in the D-Two that reflects a bar of music at that tempo. If it were me, I'd keep a metronome in the pit and every night I'd check the tempo before I started that number. That will get you very close. Then, once you hear the actual delay in that section of the song, you can make whatever small adjustment is necessary at that point.

is what we're going to do. I've played with the box enough now to convince myself that this:

I personally would not under any circumstances attempt to do a tap tempo thing while the show was going on.

is absolutely bang-on advice!

FWIW, the first time the effect is needed, the singer is a capella and sings one bar. Gets a chance to hear the echo, then echos on top of it and then he repeats, it repeats, and finally about 16 or 20 bars later the orchestra comes in. So that should work OK.

The effect is used several more times during the show, each with increasing issues, and the final time it jumps in midstream with a rigidly set tempo. We'll have to practice plenty.

Thank you all so much for your help!

Most sincerely,
jw1