Need Advise on Amps & Studio Setup

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abedinthehouse

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Need IMMEDIATE Advise on AMPS & Live Setup

I am new to this site and this is my first post...so I am a somewhat new DJ and I'm thinking about setting up my own studio to record some artists I know and host shows at my house.
My equipment so far:
(1) GEM Sound DMX-2011 (DJ Mixer)
http://salestores.com/gemsou01.html
(2) Acoustic Audio GX-450 (Speakers)
http://www.thedeepdiscount.com/p-116-acoustic-audio-gx-450-pair-700-watt-pro-dj-speakers-pa-studio-monitors.aspx
(2) Numark TT200
(2) Shure SM58

I am now trying to find a good professional amplifier for my speakers, but I still wanted some advice before I bought one....I would also like to know if there is anything else I might need to properly use my equipment such as a mic preamp?? Im pretty sure once I get the amp and cables, ill be all set..but if you know of anything else I might need, id appreciate it. (I just want to be able to get my system up and ready to play music, use my turntables, and my mics. Also should I get shielded balanced cables to use through the whole system? or does it not matter...keep in mind my mixer's outputs are balanced.

I had my mind set on the CROWN XTI 2000 but I found some EuroPower EP 4000 for cheaper...but im not sure if EuroPower is as great and dependable as CROWN...any advice from some pros would be greatly appreciated..I just want something that will run my speakers nicely with clean power without over powering it or under powering the speakers. (By under powering I mean using an amp with lower specs on full power for a speaker that has higher specs)

I really want either the Crown XTI 2000 or the EuroPower EP 4000...my budget is $500. Having an amp that will allow me to upgrade my speakers would be nice too. If you have any suggestions other than the two mentioned I'd gladly take them into account..

Here are the specs on my speakers:
http://www.thedeepdiscount.com/p-116-acoustic-audio-gx-450-pair-700-watt-pro-dj-speakers-pa-studio-monitors.aspx
700 Watts RMS to 1400 Watts Maximum per Pair
350 Watts RMS to 700 Watts Maximum Each
Minimum Power Requirement 10 Watts
Inputs: Standard Speaker Wire or Dual 1/4" Phono Style Jacks
Built-In Pole Socket for Stand
Frequency Response: 27 Hz to 20 kHz
Sensitivity: 96 dB @ 1 Watt/1 Meter
8" Inch High Rigidity PVA Treated Cone Woofer
Extended Throw Drive Assembly
25mm Loaded Piezo Horn Tweeter
Digitally Tuned Front Firing Port System
Coverage Pattern: 60° x 40°
Crossover Frequency: 1500 Hz
Nominal Impedance: 8 Ohm

The specs on the two amps are the RMS (owners manual and spec sheet for the two can be found within the links)
Crown XTI 2000 spec: (Im really thinking about getting this..)
http://www.123dj.com/amps/crown/xti2000.html
475W - 8 ohm Stereo (per channel)
800W - 4 ohm Stereo (per channel)
1,000W - 2 ohm Stereo (per channel)
1,600W - 8 ohm Bridge-Mono
2,000W - 4 ohm Bridge-Mono

EuroPower EP 4000 spec:
http://www.123dj.com/amps/behringer/ep4000.html
550W - 8 ohm Stereo (per channel)
950W - 4 ohm Stereo (per channel)
1,250W - 2 ohm Stereo (per channel)
1,750W - 8 ohm Bridge-Mono
2,400W - 4 ohm Bridge-Mono

THANKS EVERYONE...I REALLY APPRECIATE THIS HELP
 
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Sounds like you have the gear for live productions - how are you planning on recording?
 
mjbphotos said:
Sounds like you have the gear for live productions - how are you planning on recording?
Click to expand...


Well right now I am currently trying to get a live performance up and ready at my place. I just want to make sure I have the right amp and that it will work with my speakers...this is my first setup and I dont want to buy a $500 amp and end up ruining my system lol

and as for you question..I have Sony Acid 6 and Cakewalk Sonar 8. I have a M-Audio Delta 1010 that I setup in my PC and a M-Audio ProFire 2626. I also have a Behringer C-1 and an AKG Perception 220 purely for recording purposes.

now as for my main concern at the moment...the AMP...do you have any suggestions? or know if it will properly run my speakers?

thanks again for the input
 
Just run the amp in sterio and don't let it clip.
Watch your gain structure you should be fine.
 
I don't have much faith in the speakers you have chosen. I am not sure I am buying those ratings they published. Some manufacturers tend to stretch the truth as far as they possibly can to make a sale. I predict they won't live long if used in larger rooms and driven loudly, no matter what amp you use. Processed music played loudly is the worst thing for speakers due to its extremely high RMS values.
 
moresound said:
Just run the amp in sterio and don't let it clip.
Watch your gain structure you should be fine.
Click to expand...

Im pretty new with amps....what exactly is "clipping" and how could I prevent that?

and im assuming the gain structure is basically keeping it from going onto red?
 
RawDepth said:
I don't have much faith in the speakers you have chosen. I am not sure I am buying those ratings they published. Some manufacturers tend to stretch the truth as far as they possibly can to make a sale. I predict they won't live long if used in larger rooms and driven loudly, no matter what amp you use. Processed music played loudly is the worst thing for speakers due to its extremely high RMS values.
Click to expand...

1. Would you recommend the Crown or the EuroPower?
2. Is EuroPower even a good company for quality amps? I am not sure if I ever herd of it before.
3. What type of speakers would you recommend?

Thanks a bunch
 
abedinthehouse said:
1. Would you recommend the Crown or the EuroPower?
2. Is EuroPower even a good company for quality amps? I am not sure if I ever herd of it before.
3. What type of speakers would you recommend?

Thanks a bunch
Click to expand...

1. Crown has had a long standing reputation for good quality in the pro audio industry. They are still used in many large stadium PA systems.
2. EuroPower is the model series name, Behringer is the Brand. (I would recommend the Crown.)
3. I know you don't want to spend a lot more money but in this business, you get what you pay for. Something like this is the least I would go out there with, even for DJ'ing. http://www.samedaymusic.com/product--JBLJRX125

The specs on the JBL JRX125 are far better. Compare them. I know those little numbers may not look like much but there is a tremendous difference there.

For example...

- With the sensitivity being 4dB greater that means they will play more than twice as loud using the same amount wattage. Yes, twice the volume level!

- Being 4 ohms they will load the amp better and do more productive work per channel.

- Two 15" speakers will move three times more air than one 8" speaker would.

- 500 watts continuous power is a harder test to pass than 500 watts RMS because it is measured using pink noise with a 6dB crest factor. Unlike RMS which is tested using only a single tone. It's more like testing them with real music content.

- 2000 watts peak means it will recover from extreme transient spikes, (loud spots) in the music. Amp wattage constantly changes. Quiet spots in the music only cause low watts to be sent. Louder spots causes the wattage to get higher. Since amp specs are given in RMS or "average" watts, that Crown amp probably peaks at close to 2000 watts per channel. If the amp sends a 2000 watt short term spike, the speaker needs to be able to take it. (BTW, if the amp runs out of power during a transient spike, the spike waveform gets flat at the top from hitting the ceiling so-to-speak. This is called clipping and it causes speakers to blow. When the clip lights on the amp blink on and off, that means the amp is hitting its ceiling of power. A few occasional/rare blinks is tolerable if your speakers dissipate heat well, but don't ever let them blink frequently. Turn the shit down.)

Bottom line is, these speakers will take one hell of a lot more abuse in the heat-of-the-night than those GX-450's ever will.

Those JRX series are the budget line. The MRX and SRX lines are better yet.

Hope this helps.
 
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RawDepth said:
3. I know you don't want to spend a lot more money but in this business, you get what you pay for. Something like this is the least I would go out there with, even for DJ'ing. http://www.samedaymusic.com/product--JBLJRX125
Click to expand...

It actually did help a lot, thanks...but my budget as of now is only $500, and the Crown alone is a little under $500...I am definitely going to save those speakers to buy at a later time...but if there are any cheaper models that you know of, I would be grateful.
 
abedinthehouse said:
I am new to this site and this is my first post...so I am a somewhat new DJ and I'm thinking about setting up my own studio to record some artists I know and host shows at my house.
My equipment so far:
(1) GEM Sound DMX-2011 (DJ Mixer)
http://salestores.com/gemsou01.html
(2) Acoustic Audio GX-450 (Speakers)
http://www.thedeepdiscount.com/p-116-acoustic-audio-gx-450-pair-700-watt-pro-dj-speakers-pa-studio-monitors.aspx
(2) Numark TT200
(2) Shure SM58

I am now trying to find a good professional amplifier for my speakers, but I still wanted some advice before I bought one....I would also like to know if there is anything else I might need to properly use my equipment such as a mic preamp?? Im pretty sure once I get the amp and cables, ill be all set..but if you know of anything else I might need, id appreciate it. (I just want to be able to get my system up and ready to play music, use my turntables, and my mics. Also should I get shielded balanced cables to use through the whole system? or does it not matter...keep in mind my mixer's outputs are balanced.

I had my mind set on the CROWN XTI 2000 but I found some EuroPower EP 4000 for cheaper...but im not sure if EuroPower is as great and dependable as CROWN...any advice from some pros would be greatly appreciated..I just want something that will run my speakers nicely with clean power without over powering it or under powering the speakers. (By under powering I mean using an amp with lower specs on full power for a speaker that has higher specs)

I really want either the Crown XTI 2000 or the EuroPower EP 4000...my budget is $500. Having an amp that will allow me to upgrade my speakers would be nice too. If you have any suggestions other than the two mentioned I'd gladly take them into account..

Here are the specs on my speakers:
http://www.thedeepdiscount.com/p-116-acoustic-audio-gx-450-pair-700-watt-pro-dj-speakers-pa-studio-monitors.aspx
700 Watts RMS to 1400 Watts Maximum per Pair
350 Watts RMS to 700 Watts Maximum Each
Minimum Power Requirement 10 Watts
Inputs: Standard Speaker Wire or Dual 1/4" Phono Style Jacks
Built-In Pole Socket for Stand
Frequency Response: 27 Hz to 20 kHz
Sensitivity: 96 dB @ 1 Watt/1 Meter
8" Inch High Rigidity PVA Treated Cone Woofer
Extended Throw Drive Assembly
25mm Loaded Piezo Horn Tweeter
Digitally Tuned Front Firing Port System
Coverage Pattern: 60° x 40°
Crossover Frequency: 1500 Hz
Nominal Impedance: 8 Ohm

The specs on the two amps are the RMS (owners manual and spec sheet for the two can be found within the links)
Crown XTI 2000 spec: (Im really thinking about getting this..)
http://www.123dj.com/amps/crown/xti2000.html
475W - 8 ohm Stereo (per channel)
800W - 4 ohm Stereo (per channel)
1,000W - 2 ohm Stereo (per channel)
1,600W - 8 ohm Bridge-Mono
2,000W - 4 ohm Bridge-Mono

EuroPower EP 4000 spec:
http://www.123dj.com/amps/behringer/ep4000.html
550W - 8 ohm Stereo (per channel)
950W - 4 ohm Stereo (per channel)
1,250W - 2 ohm Stereo (per channel)
1,750W - 8 ohm Bridge-Mono
2,400W - 4 ohm Bridge-Mono

THANKS EVERYONE...I REALLY APPRECIATE THIS HELP
Click to expand...

These are the ISBL ratings. (if struck by lightning) You could blow those speakers with a transistor radio. They will sound horrible with that piezo tweeter too. Just harsh and grating. Not much better than a cheap boom box.

The amp ratings are off the chart too. As said before, these are ISBL ratings. Go by the 8 ohm stereo rating as this will be the cleanest power from the amp. Running it at full tilt will not make it play 5 times louder. You need ten times the power to double the volume. 3db sounds twice as loud, 10db is twice as loud.

The advice given above to look elsewhere is recommended. That DJ mixer will fall apart too. It will be scratchy and buzzing in no time.

Save your money and spring for the Crown amp and JBL speakers or something else comperable to that.
 
Brian Oshman said:
The advice given above to look elsewhere is recommended. That DJ mixer will fall apart too. It will be scratchy and buzzing in no time.

Save your money and spring for the Crown amp and JBL speakers or something else comperable to that.
Click to expand...

Ok, I did some research and found the JBLs for about $400 for 2 of them, and I'm thinking about springing for the Crown and JBL's..but if I get 2 of the JRX125 than will 1 Crown XTi2000 be able to handle both speakers? or will I need to buy two XTI2000?

Also, say I spring for a new mixer...I want one with at least 4 channels, crossfader, and able to play a pair of turntables.
 
The one amp will be fine. You can add a bigger one later with a subwoofer.
 
Some facts about stereo power amps.

You can choose to run them either stereo (two independent channels) or bridged, (both channels internally connected or combined to behave like one.)

Brian is right, one amp can run both speakers if you leave it set to stereo mode. Connect one speaker box to the left side channel and one to the right side.

The amp output depends on what speaker you connect to the amp. If the speaker used is rated at 8 ohms then the amp is estimated to put out an average of 475 watts long term. If you connect a 4 ohm speaker, (a heavier load to pull) then the amp puts out more power accordingly. Read the average power rating shown for 4 ohms to arrive at 800 watts.

Amp wattage is also dependent on signal volume level. If the incoming signal is low the amp wattage will be low. As the input signal increases so too does the amp power. Always turn up the amp volume to 10, wide open, fully clockwise and always regulate the input level using the mixer. Again, the amp wattage will stay low if the mixer is turned low. Think of the amp volume as a knob that attenuates the incoming signal before it gets amplified. The only reason to turn it down is to protect under-rated speakers, (or if you cannot regulate the volume at the mixer.)

The amp wattage must double to get a 3dB increase in volume. So, to go from 96dB to 99dB, the average output doubles. It must double again to get to 102dB. And so on...

Speaker sensitivity shows us how loud the speaker can play starting at only 1 watt. The higher the starting point, the "louder" the end result will be after doubling the power a few times.
 
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wow, thats a lot to take in at once but I think im following along right...I;m actually really thinking abou takeing your sugestion and going with the JRX135..now that puts out a 500W at 4 ohms im assuming..now if I get just one as of now...that would mean I could run it in bridged mono mode? So im guessing id just put the signal from my mixer to the left input chanell in the amp and connect the JBL to the left output from the amp..when I do do this...should I still put the amp volume at 10?...shouldnt I be worried about clipping if the volume is up on my mixer...couldnt I juts go the safe route and say put the volume on 7 on the amp and as high as I want on the mixer? what would be the best method for just a single JBL connected to the Crown XTi2000?

PS. Thanks again for all these replies, you guys are really helping me out soo much here..not too many people know much about pro audio equipment.
 
abedinthehouse said:
...if I get just one as of now...that would mean I could run it in bridged mono mode?
Click to expand...

No, do not switch it into bridged mode because that would double the output power and overwhelm a single speaker at higher volumes. Leave it in stereo and only use half of the amp with one speaker. It can run one side without the other side being used.

abedinthehouse said:
...when I do do this...should I still put the amp volume at 10?...shouldnt I be worried about clipping if the volume is up on my mixer...couldnt I juts go the safe route and say put the volume on 7 on the amp and as high as I want on the mixer?
Click to expand...

If the volume on the mixer gets too high it can cause distortion and/or clipping of the signal the same as in the amp. Then the waveforms will still be flat at the top before they get sent to the amp. (The flat top signal is what speakers don't like.) The amp still amplifies those distorted (squared off) waves and passes them on to the speaker. In other words, once the signal is clipped, turning the amp down won't fix it. The speaker still builds up excessive heat due to the clipped signal. If the amp is turned down, it just takes it longer to reach the danger point.

Having the amp on 10 sort of forces you to keep the mixer under control by watching the amp lights. This is a good thing because it encourages you to maintain proper gain structure elsewhere in the system.

It takes one hell of a lot of volume to get the clip lights to come on. When those lights begin to come on the speakers will probably be playing close to 133dB. I wouldn't want to be standing right in front of them. It's just an early warning that you are pushing the system too far. You will learn how much is too much after you run it for a while.

The system will sound kind of empty and drab with only one speaker and it won't be as loud as two. It also will not fill the room with bass like two speakers could, so be careful not to push up the bass too far. If you ever hear a loud popping or clicking sound coming from the 15" speaker it means the voice coil is hitting the bottom of the magnet gap. This is the result of the cone moving in and out too far. Another warning sign that damage may occur.

Speakers are fragile and you've got to learn to keep them in their safety zone.

Good luck with it.
 
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Thank you soo much! This helps A LOT!
I know I'll have more questions later on, but thats prolly once the Items get here...once again thanks for the help everyone!
 
I actually just got the items today, and I am going to hook it all up tmmrw...so heres what i have
*1 JBL JRX125
*1 Crown XTi2000
*1 Mixer
*Shure SM58LC

*The cables running from the mixer to the amp (right chanell) is a XLR cable
*The cables running from the amp to the speaker (right chanell) is a Speakon cable
*and ill most likely run the right chanell volume in the amp at around 5

Now, is there anything else I should worry about?
and I was going through the Manual for the Crown and the LCD settings are pretty confusing...can anyone who has a Crown XTi model help me out??

Thanks again everyone


also are speakon cables sheilded? I read somewhere in the manual for the amp to never use sheilded connections on speakers...and does it matter if the cable from the amp to speaker is balanced either?
 
Id just like to thank everyone that helped me the past week.
All my equipments running smoothly, in fact I'm blasting music as I'm typing this lol

Thanks again everyone!!
 
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