Need Advice (Sunny Day Love)

[BeniRose]

This is a song my friend wrote that we're recording for our mutual friend's wedding as a present. Here's my first mix and pseudo-master, any and all feedback is appreciated:

Also, if you take a listen to the original from her album, you'll notice it's much louder. Does anything stand out in my mix as to why this might be? I mixed this down in Logic, normalized, and then sent it through the "Standard Limit" setting in Wave Burner. Do you think getting a proper mastering would really bring up the levels that much or do I have something that needs to get fixed in my mix. Other than the quietness, I think it sounds really great! Here's the original:

 

[jeffmaher]

Your drums way loud and stark. Lots of brass and brashiness...clanging; not much of that I could hear in the original...and your kit panned wider that almost everything else. Vox in original is way in yer face...yours is lower. Original has guit louder and panned centerish...in fact original is verging on mono...clustered within about 20-30% of center I reckon:which makes its reverb...which yours doesn't have very much, or any.... really shine up the tune. There's an image of space and dimension. yours lacks.

I don't think the original is louder....mostly more ambient, and your mix is way different. Tame the kit, tighten pan and level down...especially the brass; bring up the vox; center the guitar and make it louder; and add some verb. Then some EQing on the instruments to match the original.....which I think, IIRC, is more sheen on the vox, belly in the guitar, and highs rolled off on the kit. Drums are overpowering. Upright and kick might come down a bit. I think the kit and upright are slamming the red line before anything else can catch up. With more control on those, I think you could make your master a lot thicker and 'louder'. I think. That's my fast take after listening to both one each...

 

[BeniRose]

Hey thanks Jeff. This is actually the tamest kit I've mixed, I usually have my kit WAY too loud, but I guess it's still too loud. I recorded the drums with LDCs so they would sound more open, but it does pick up a bit more of the brassiness, I guess I'll have to try filtering out some higher frequency bands.

Someone else actually said my drums need to be spread more, so I guess I'll try both and see what sounds better, but if my mix lacks "space and dimension" wouldn't I want these spread pretty far? I am already planning on bringing the guitar up a bit, but I think it's a bit too loud in the original. Also, the guitar is slightly spread, and there's reverb on the guitar and vocals in my mix, but I'm glad you can't tell because I think the original is SOAKED in reverb and it sounds pretty nasty. I also think the vox are too loud in the original, but I'm open to turning mine up just a little.

I imagine mine lacks an image of space and dimension because it was recorded in my basement, where there's not much space or dimension! Reverb would make it seem there was, but it would be at the cost of it sounding like I used reverb to give it space and dimension!

I agree, the bass is taking up a lot of the room here too, but I'm having a hard time getting it down to the point I don't feel it's drowning, since it's pretty key to the mix (it's what the singer plays) and it carries the melody with the vocals, rather than the guitar. I'm not super interested in making this mix sound like the original, I just want it to have more presence and "space" like you said. The only thing I wish I had was a bit more texture on the bass, but unfortunately, I didn't pick it up very well between the pickup and the Beta 52, so I don't have much to work with.

I'm looking forward to posting an updated version.

 

[BeniRose]

So here's what I did.

I turned the kit down quite a bit and also turned just the kick down and did some EQ tweaking on the overheads, I think they sound quite better. I switched the compressor on the snare from the "Platinum" setting in logic to an "Opto" compressor, which really brought out a bit more body in it. I can probably turn down the kick even just a little bit more.

I also put compression on the bass, which I didn't have for some reason, and turned it down a bit as well, but not too much. This really freed up a lot of the lower frequencies, which were overpowered when she hit low notes, and probably the main culprit in my quick hit of 0.

Once I turned these two down, I didn't really need to turn the guitars up. I did tighten up the spread on the drums just a pinch and spread the guitar just a little more as well.

However, the biggest change I think I made was switching my reverb sends from mono to stereo. Having stereo reverbs really effected the stereo image, and I was able to put my snare in Post-Pan send so that it only had reverb where it was supposed to, but left the stereo guitar and mono vocals with centered stereo reverb. I personally think it sounds much better because of it, I just have to remember to keep some of channels in post-pan to keep my reverb's stereo image matching up with the dry signals.

 

[jeffmaher]

Yeah! That's way bettah!

Did another comparison...you're right..the original vox is awash in cheep verb. I like yours better. The only positive on the original is, though, it sounds like the signal is rolled off from about 650Hz down in a long curve, and the has the floor expanded to boost all the quiet mouth noises...esses, pops, snaps, and back of the throat rasp...I can even hear her lips parting...which make it like she's singing in my ear, real close and personal. I like that! Your vox is a lot more middie, and sounds distant. Weak on the low-level breath and mouth noise. But still nice. Just a tad too robust, not light and airy. The 'pillow talk' effect.

The cymbals on the original are duller...yours are very bright...but only out-of character near the end...if at all.

Drum panning...

I think spreading the kit as much as you have creates a virtual space.....but it's a mental picture of the listener sitting behind the kit playing the drums...watching the rest of the band! Especially with the levels up, and not much verb to back-place it, and a lot of high freqs..which make it sound a lot more proximate. I think the brass might be placed closer to center??

By space, I meant the space that a particular reverb or delay can create...hearing reflections come from "side-walls"...like real life. Wide pans ...with stuff coming from the wings....can ruin the effect.

I don't know a lot about it, but I've been able to make strong virtual space by using a room verb mixed with a matched stereo delay..real lightly...to get good images of whatever room I can imagine...the pings of the delay tweaking the ear where wide panning would step on it.

The last diff I hear is that your bass sounds a lot more boomy. The original has a much thinner sound...a lot more up-rightie and woodie....like it was mic'd further away. Yours sounds like the mic was in the 'f'-hole...and it gained a lot of 'proximity' effect boom. Were it my mix, I might depress some of the boom to get more jazzy wood, like the original. The bigness of the bottom is a matter of taste, though.

If you're pleased with it, I'd say it's done! Nice! A good tune!

ps...if you have time, it might be nice to do a couple edits of the bass drum hits in the early part of the tune...some are off a couple MS's... not hitting with the upright....or something. Noticed it. It'll bother you forever if you don't :^)