Need advice starting out as a live engineer

[thebigcheese]

I've been recording for a while in my little home studio (and also in my school's studio when I was still there). I was looking on Craigslist for something to get me money and I noticed a band looking for a sound guy, no gear necessary (provided by band). I figured I could do that, but I think they've already found someone by now. The more I thought about it, though, the more I figured that, as long as I don't have to provide the gear, there's no reason I shouldn't be able to do at least a halfway decent job.

So my questions are:

-What's different about live vs the studio? I know that I'm going to have to worry about feedback, which, as I understand it, is usually tamed with EQ (though I'm not totally sure about the process for that). I would also want to close mic as many instruments as possible, I imagine, as opposed to how I might mic things in the studio.
-Is the equipment generally provided by someone else, or might some people expect me to bring my own?
-What should I charge? I imagine that most of you are more experienced and charging more, but what did you start out charging? I don't have any idea what the rates for sound guys are.

Thanks.

 

[moresound]

Hey BC, I own a sound company with a whole slew of different size PAs and about 8 people to run them for me.
I get about 10 acquires a year from people who have graduated from full sail looking for work.
What I tell them right of the bat is that the difference between studio to live engineering is the speed in which you have to deal with fixing things,
In the studio you can have all afternoon to fiddle with the bass but only 5 seconds to fix it live and know how and what to do in that 5 seconds to correct it.

I've seen freelance engineers on a brief case gig (supplying no equipment) get anywhere from $50 to $100. a night. Where as if you supplied the PA and engineered the show you could get $500. to $5000. a night depending on the gear and how big the set up is!

You might want to look up certain bands on sonic bid and take a look at their tech riders or minimum tech requirements to see what equipment is acceptable and what is not. When you add it all up one system will cost you tens of thousands of dollars!
But don't get discouraged we all have to start out somewhere and if it's something you truly want to do with your life get to work, for life is way to short to be pondering with the little things.

If you have any more questions feel free to contact me.

 

[witzendoz]

Hey BC, I own a sound company with a whole slew of different size PAs and about 8 people to run them for me.
I get about 10 acquires a year from people who have graduated from full sail looking for work.
What I tell them right of the bat is that the difference between studio to live engineering is the speed in which you have to deal with fixing things,
In the studio you can have all afternoon to fiddle with the bass but only 5 seconds to fix it live and know how and what to do in that 5 seconds to correct it.

I've seen freelance engineers on a brief case gig (supplying no equipment) get anywhere from $50 to $100. a night. Where as if you supplied the PA and engineered the show you could get $500. to $5000. a night depending on the gear and how big the set up is!

Yes exactly, when I used to do live sound suppling the PA / lights, I used to get graduates from a certin audio engineering school ring me up for work experience, I would say "meet at the venue at 2.30pm" they would say but the show does not start until 8.300pm?" my reply: "we have to set the show up" Dah! so they would turn up, carry some heavy boxes push some cases around, I would show them how to Set up the show, eq the PA, line check, sound check, and say "stick with me and watch what I do during the show". About 10.30pm they would want to go home? I would say "the show finishes at midnight, what about packing down?" None of these students have been shown the hard work side of live sound, when you start out with large companys you will be lugging and setting up gear, and by asking qustions and watching hopfully learning what you need to know about live sound. I actually used to lug and set up for very large shows when work was slow and I used to enjoy working around international sound guys.

Oh and: I've seen freelance engineers on a brief case gig (supplying no equipment) get anywhere from $50 to $100. a night.

I don't set up large systems any more, I am getting older and I just don't want too, (already had one knee fixed and a bad back from a car accident to contend with), so bands want me to do walk in's, I like doing them but they keep offering $50 a night? Try calling out a plumber for $50. Sound engineering is a trade that takes years to learn.

Cheers
Alan

 

[thebigcheese]

Really? Why would you offer to come do a job and then not do it? I think some people just don't get it... I know from working in TV and from the couple of gigs I've had as a band that lugging stuff is the majority of the evening. One day I hope to have roadies to do that for me...

 

[Uhdinator]

I do sound gig's as a side biz off and on and got started while working as a pro audio sales guy. Most of my gig's were customers inquiring about where to find a sound guy. I made a a lot of friends as well. I played in a band doing bar gigs for about 4 years as well, and was the most knowledgeable about the gear so ended up carrying a lot of the load concerning plugging in the gear.

Most bands had the gear they needed and I would show up after my sales shift and help plug in what was left and double check stuff and run sound and get paid on average $80 club for a gig.

As my preference though I usually brought my mixer and a couple small racks of my own rack gear as I know my gear and preferred using mine (Allen & Heath mixer, DBX drive rack, EQ's, Effects, Compressors) I also carried my own tool box with items like, adapters, DI boxes, solder, solder iron, tape, zip ties, multimeter. I also had My own drum mics, a few spare cables, etc as a back up. Some bands no drum mics or cheap bad sounding ones. It was my rep so I used the best gear I could.

Most gigs I show up and hour before the gig due to my other job and the band had everything set up, mic'd and plugged in except for the mixer.
So all had to do was plug in the snake to my board and my rack gear and do a quick test and go with it. (I had presets in my drive rack for each band so I could get it up and going quick).

I have a complete system myself as well and did some gigs using my system.
Most of those Gigs I got paid $200-800 depending on if it was a New Years bar Gig or all day outdoor event and of course did everything myself then.
Its not a lot of money considering the investment. I collected my gear a piece at a time over a long period being a musician and wanting to have my own system for band projects of my own. (realized that being in a band with guys just because they owned a PA was not always productive).

I learned a lot from reading books, Mags, and experience as well. Did not have all the internet forums to get info like now.

When I was in a band we paid the sound guy an even cut of what we got paid for the night. Our sound guy came to every practice and learned the gear and we all worked together as far as setting up/tearing down.

So there are lots a ways you can get into it depending on the band also.
I would have liked to get paid more but most bands can't afford it and don't see the value in paying you more than they make in a night. I was happy to make an extra 160 bucks a week on average to help me get buy and get some experience as well.

I've even see some guys that work at a club instead of for a band and they provide the sound system. You might even be able to negotiate a gig doing the band bookings for the club and the sound. So that's another option but requires investment.

 

[bjorg]

What type of venues are you talking about? What size?

 

[moresound]

Big, Huge, Gigantic, colossal, made Moby Dick look like a guppy.