Need a check on planning next gear buying

[daav]

Current setup:
LP studio
Old Japanese Strat

Fender Blues deluxe, little fender bronco amps.
Boss GT-3 (probably going to sell)
Real Tube II (selling)
Dunlop Crybaby Wah (older one with boost option, and the knowb on the side)
Vibe pedal (simulates leslie speaker)

Mexican Fender Jazz bass
GK 200 RCB bass head
Homemade 12" speaker cab
** Though i find it super fun, I barely play the bass, this rig is more than enough for me for now**


Sonar Force 1001 drum set w/custom A hats, Custom A ping ride, A medium thing 16" crash
Some truiggers and Alesis AMD5 module (selling)

Mics (so far):
SM57
SM58
2 MXL 603s

I put this stuff through:

behringer U802 cheese mixer
Fostex MR8 (16bit/ 44/1 mhz)

Monotoring through Wharfedale diamond 8.2As

and dump the tracks back and forth to mix in NTracks on my 1800 Athlon 1GB RAM PC.
I use plugins in NTRACk for compression, eq, added reverb etc.

All recording happens in untreated bedroom space or basement (drums).

So currently my next purchases I have in mind are:
A cheaper LDC like SP B1
Preamp like the DMP3

Then down the road replace the MR8, mixer, etc with a new PC setup and presonus firewire or the like, I'd really like to break the 16/44.1 abd 2-inputs-at-once barrier .

Any suggestions thoughts about this plan? Taking all advice, because i could possibly be convinced to hold off on anything other than getting an LDC to move up in quality. For instance, a PC interface with decent pres that would save buying a cheaper pre (but better than the U802 mixer pres) AND get me to a better PC based system would be tempting.

Thanks and hit me with any questions that would help with advice.
Daav.

 

[dwillis45]

The DMP3 has a loyal following on this BBS but I would only upgrade if you can bypass the Behringer preamps as well as the built-in preamps on the Fostex. There are also some other preamps you might consider including the FMR RNP. I'de skip the SP mic and hold out for something better like an AT4050 or one of the Shure KSM series (KSM 44 if you can swing the cash). Your "down the road plan" makes sense and I would shoot for that as soon as your budget allows. A firewire interface is one option but you might also consider a soundcard. And by all means pursue some room treatment options and monitors.

 

[matt rascal]

Sound card? What are you using?

 

[daav]

The DMP3 has a loyal following on this BBS but I would only upgrade if you can bypass the Behringer preamps as well as the built-in preamps on the Fostex. There are also some other preamps you might consider including the FMR RNP. I'de skip the SP mic and hold out for something better like an AT4050 or one of the Shure KSM series (KSM 44 if you can swing the cash). Your "down the road plan" makes sense and I would shoot for that as soon as your budget allows. A firewire interface is one option but you might also consider a soundcard. And by all means pursue some room treatment options and monitors.

Thanks for the input. To you and any others out there two questions:
Turning gain on the pres on both the mixer and MR8 would bypass (or at least be as good as i can get without removing entirely) right? Any noise from the units themselves would be minimixed wouldnl't it?

For either a straight soundcard or interface route, do any have preamps comparable to decent quality dedicated budget preamps, or would i be looking at buying that stuff, and the preamps (the whole reason I am currently thinking of buying the preamps now- I can probabaly afford one, but not both right now).

Thanks for the mic ideas, especially. Added rep the reply.

Daav.

 

[daav]

Sound card? What are you using?

Whatever piece of crap is stapled on to the ASUS motherboard on my PC, i have not gotten beyons 6-8 tracks on the PC yet with my flailing so far, so it has not quite tapped out the resourced (I think the GB of ram helps there). I expect to start taxing it a bit more soon.

Daav.

 

[reshp1]

What are you using to monitor through? I don't know if you didn't list monitors because you were more interested on the recording side, not playback side, or if you didn't have them. That would be my first purchase, why get better gear if you can't hear the difference?

 

[daav]

What are you using to monitor through? I don't know if you didn't list monitors because you were more interested on the recording side, not playback side, or if you didn't have them. That would be my first purchase, why get better gear if you can't hear the difference?

Bah, my bad, i missed that in the write up, using the wharfedale 8.2As. I just updated my post with that.

Daav.

 

[reshp1]

Bah, my bad, i missed that in the write up, using the wharfedale 8.2As. I just updated my post with that.

Daav.

Ah, cool. Nice monitors. Between the LDC and the DMP3, I think a nicer LDC in the $300-500 range would be a more dramatic step up. The pre's in the Behringer aren't THAT bad, the A/D conversion in your stock soundcard would be the weak link. Maybe go for a 2channel M-Audio interface to replace the soundcard? I've heard good things about the presonus firebox too.

 

[dwillis45]

Then down the road replace the MR8, mixer, etc with a new PC setup and presonus firewire or the like, I'd really like to break the 16/44.1 abd 2-inputs-at-once barrier .

Any suggestions thoughts about this plan? Taking all advice, because i could possibly be convinced to hold off on anything other than getting an LDC to move up in quality. For instance, a PC interface with decent pres that would save buying a cheaper pre (but better than the U802 mixer pres) AND get me to a better PC based system would be tempting.

Thanks and hit me with any questions that would help with advice.
Daav.

It's great to see you thinking long-term with a plan in mind! Too many people seem to view recording and equipment purchases in the short or near term. If you're really going to do this as a serious hobby or even as a business, long term planning is important. I can't tell you the number of dumb things I've bought just because they seemed to make sense at the time. If I had to do it over again I would have skipped a lot of intermediate steps and a lot of unneeded gear. So, looking at your plan, I'm wondering if you should skip over a budget firewire interface and plan on some more high quality purchases over time. Start by upgrading your computer and get the best soundcard you can afford with professional inputs. You may have to spend more than you'de like but the purchase will pay off in the long run. Then start looking for a good AD converter and eventually a good mic pre. In the meantime, use the MR8 to record material that you plan to re-record when your equipment improves. This process will take a while but in the end you will have good, solid equipment that will last.

I base this on my own experience, since I started several years ago with a stand-alone recorder (Fostex VF-16) and then moved up to a DAW based on the original MOTU 828 interface. I went through the same thinking you did. How can I improve the sound of the Fostex? Maybe an external mic pre. How can I override the built-in preamps on the VF16? What are the consequences of not working around the built-in preamps? So I bought a Focusrite Trakmaster followed by an Aphex 207. Both preamps worked but I was still not quite satisfied with the sound quality. I then began looking at a DAW setup since the Fostex only did 16 bit recording. When I purchased the MOTU it was literally the only firewire interface available--not like the choice you have today with models by Tascam, Digidesign, Edirol, M-Audio, Presonus, etc. And while the 828 worked fine, I always had doubts about the preamps and the converters. So my next step was to upgrade to a stand-alone AD converter (Lucid 9624) and a really good pre (Great River Me1nv). I look back and think why did I blow all that time and cash when I probably should have added one quality piece at a time starting with a soundcard followed by the Lucid and the Great River.

 

[daav]

It's great to see you thinking long-term with a plan in mind! Too many people seem to view recording and equipment purchases in the short or near term. If you're really going to do this as a serious hobby or even as a business, long term planning is important. I can't tell you the number of dumb things I've bought just because they seemed to make sense at the time. If I had to do it over again I would have skipped a lot of intermediate steps and a lot of unneeded gear. So, looking at your plan, I'm wondering if you should skip over a budget firewire interface and plan on some more high quality purchases over time. Start by upgrading your computer and get the best soundcard you can afford with professional inputs. You may have to spend more than you'de like but the purchase will pay off in the long run. Then start looking for a good AD converter and eventually a good mic pre. In the meantime, use the MR8 to record material that you plan to re-record when your equipment improves. This process will take a while but in the end you will have good, solid equipment that will last.

I base this on my own experience, since I started several years ago with a stand-alone recorder (Fostex VF-16) and then moved up to a DAW based on the original MOTU 828 interface. I went through the same thinking you did. How can I improve the sound of the Fostex? Maybe an external mic pre. How can I override the built-in preamps on the VF16? What are the consequences of not working around the built-in preamps? So I bought a Focusrite Trakmaster followed by an Aphex 207. Both preamps worked but I was still not quite satisfied with the sound quality. I then began looking at a DAW setup since the Fostex only did 16 bit recording. When I purchased the MOTU it was literally the only firewire interface available--not like the choice you have today with models by Tascam, Digidesign, Edirol, M-Audio, Presonus, etc. And while the 828 worked fine, I always had doubts about the preamps and the converters. So my next step was to upgrade to a stand-alone AD converter (Lucid 9624) and a really good pre (Great River Me1nv). I look back and think why did I blow all that time and cash when I probably should have added one quality piece at a time starting with a soundcard followed by the Lucid and the Great River.

Wow, thanks that totally made me rethink everyhting i had planned. I had never considered the dedicated AD/DA converter route before. I think that your suggested route puts me in a whole new level of $$ outlay though. You are right, if I am really serious about this (over time) then it will be worth it.

Maybe for now, I will continue to work with what i have and save some $$ for that day (and allow the technology curve to improve the options when ready to spend money again in, say, 6 months) and just get a decent LDC mic and a decent pre.

Thanks.
Daav