Neck relief?

[cellardweller]

I've found some conflicting opinions on what correct neck relief should be.

I (still) have some fret buzz in a couple of places between 12th and 24th frets, so I was considering turning the truss rod 1/32 to see if there is any improvement....

 

[Tadpui]

I think that it depends on the guitar. I've seen different figures recommended for a Les Paul versus a Telecaster versus a Strat.

Plus it could depend on your particular setup...like your picking attack, string gauge, etc. I have no earthly idea what actual figures to give you though.

I suck at setting neck relief anyways. Its a real pain in the n....I'm not even going to make that pun

 

[Light]

Fret at the first fret and about the body fret. There should be ABOUT a playing cards thickness of relief (and no, I don't know what the measurement should be, as I've never measured it. We've always done it by eye).


Light

"Cowards can never be moral."
M.K. Gandhi

 

[Light]

Oh, and many shops (or at least mine) will set the neck bow for you for free.


Light

"Cowards can never be moral."
M.K. Gandhi

 

[cellardweller]

Oh, and many shops (or at least mine) will set the neck bow for you for free.


Light

"Cowards can never be moral."
M.K. Gandhi

Oh yeah?
Where are you at?

A "playing card" worth of relief? That's all?
So if I already have in excess of this amount, what would be the next recommended course of action, or the most likely culprit?

 

[cephus]

Buzz that high on the neck sounds like the neck isn't shimmed right (if it's a bolt on).

Are we still allowed to shim or does that mean the guitar is crap?

 

[cellardweller]

It's not a bolt-on neck, it's a Schecter C-7 if it's of any consequence....

 

[Sirnothingness]

I hate to sound like a kiss-ass, but I'd go with Light's suggestion. I'd ask the tech at my local shop to adjust it just to be safe.

Then again, I use full service gas 'casue I'm too much of a pussy to pump my own.



just kiddin' I pump my own gas.



how did we get on the subject of gas anyway? Oh well, later.

 

[ermghoti]

Oh yeah?
Where are you at?

A "playing card" worth of relief? That's all?
So if I already have in excess of this amount, what would be the next recommended course of action, or the most likely culprit?

You are fretting at the first and last frets when you check relief, yes? Never assume, you know...

 

[Clive Hugh]

I'm trying to make out what exactly you mean when you say "turn the nut 1/32". are you referring to the relief or the actual nut turning? If you mean the nut turning unless you know the pitch of the thread you won't be able to measure the "turn". So I'll assume you are referring to the relief. Any adjustment should be one flat of the hexagon at a time, or 1/6 of a turn. do it and leave it to settle for an hour or 2, then check it again. If I have confused you further it might a good idea to get it done for you.

 

[cellardweller]

I will be fretting at the first and last frets...

Seems I'd read somewhere or been told that even 1/8 turn of the truss rod can have a drastic affect.
I don't think I'll be adjusting it at all, because I'm pretty sure I already have the amount of relief Light has indicated. I'll have to check it shortly when I can get to it....

I guess I'll try adjusting the action to see if I can get rid some buzz.
E and A strings are unbearable on the attack during fast picking parts.

 

[goldtopchas]

You say "some" fret issues between the 12th and 24th. If it's almost all of them, it's a truss rod adjustment issue. If it's only a couple of frets, it's probably a fret height problem and would only be fixed with "leveling" unless of course you just raise the action untill it stops, which most players don't want.

Rule of thumb...If it buzzes on the first few frets, the neck is too straight or maybe even back-bowed a little. Turn it counterclockwise or loosen it.

If it buzzes on the higher positions on the neck, too much relief... tighten a little to straighten it and then raise action slightly.( tightening the rod will usually lower the action a little.)

I like to actually get it buzzing the same on most of the frets, then raise action till it stops. This makes it as straight as it can get, but requires a "light" touch. If you play hard , you need more relief to allow the elliptical pattern of the strings vibration to travel. Wound strings vibrate with more "travel" than plain ones.

P.S. Make sure you have good quality strings. Bad strings(quality or worn out) will make a string vibrate erratically and cause it to buzz. I have seen many "playability problems" magically disappear simply by changing a string. If you're nervous about making the adjustment, make a mark on the truss rod nut. You can always put it back to it's original postion. Good luck!

 

[Light]

You are fretting at the first and last frets when you check relief, yes? Never assume, you know...

It's (always) at the last fret. If you did that on a Martin, for instance, it would be very misleading. The first fret and, really, the fret where the neck starts to get thicker going into the body. On most acoustics, that is about 10-12th fret. On a strat it is about the 15-16th fret. Once the neck starts getting thicker, or goes into the body, the truss rod doesn't work very well, so it can give you a bad reading.


Light

"Cowards can never be moral."
M.K. Gandhi

 

[Light]

You say "some" fret issues between the 12th and 24th. If it's almost all of them, it's a truss rod adjustment issue. If it's only a couple of frets, it's probably a fret height problem and would only be fixed with "leveling" unless of course you just raise the action untill it stops, which most players don't want.

This brings up another point, which is that I have seen a fair number (not a lot, but more than a few) Schecters which had high frets. That's another thing you might want to get checked out.


Light

"Cowards can never be moral."
M.K. Gandhi

 

[rayc]

See a pro & then, when you're relaxed and comfortable, take the guitar to a tech & have it done professionally.
I keep telling myself I'll adjust the neck on my old semi-acoustic bass but when it comes down to it I'm afraid of stuffing it up & then having to take it to a tech for correction. I know I'll just take it to the tech in the 1st instance.
Cheers
rayC

 

[cellardweller]

You say "some" fret issues between the 12th and 24th. If it's almost all of them, it's a truss rod adjustment issue. If it's only a couple of frets, it's probably a fret height problem and would only be fixed with "leveling" unless of course you just raise the action untill it stops, which most players don't want.

Yes it is only in some places.
For instance, on the E it is approx frets 9-12, D approx 10-12, and there is some wierdness with intonation on the 1st string E as well. The intonation appears to be dead on between open and 12th, but when I play a chord above the 12th fret on B and E it sound out of tune.

I think I might be sending it back to Schecter.
Now I have to find my receipt. GREAT!!!

 

[noisedude]

Yes it is only in some places.
For instance, on the E it is approx frets 9-12, D approx 10-12, and there is some wierdness with intonation on the 1st string E as well. The intonation appears to be dead on between open and 12th, but when I play a chord above the 12th fret on B and E it sound out of tune.

I think I might be sending it back to Schecter.
Now I have to find my receipt. GREAT!!!

A good shop would do a setup on a guitar before letting it leave the shop. I do fret dresses even down to the cheapest strat copies ... anything less and frankly I won't sleep at night.

Other than that, Light is absolutely right as usual. Acoustic guitars are an interesting one because so many of them have issues with the neck changing as it meets the body. All the Takamines we've had in over the last 18 months have had slightly twisted necks and very dramatic humps where they hit the body. Makes setups difficult and the frets might not look pretty afterwards (lower on one side than the other) but other than dramatic planing that's all you can do ... certainly at a reasonable cost.

I don't get even Taylors in to know but I imagine that amongst their various modernisations of acoustic guitars they will have addressed the issue. I think it's caused by the block under the neck expanding? And do Taylor, like Godin etc, use bolt-ons?

 

[cellardweller]

The operative word in your post noisy is "good".
Unfortunately, there is nothing which fits that description within 30 miles of here.

Here's how it usually goes

1. drop off item to be repaired/obtain approx time frame
2. call back at time given, "item is with guitar tech, but he's backlogged".
3. wait another 2 weeks
4. go back to store
5. find item in same place I put it
6. Two months pass/finally repairs complete!
7. Receive item back in same condition as before

Sadly, I don't think the guy is really incompetent, just lazy!
Last time I ended up waiting for the daywhen he was in, taking my guitar back, and walking him through the setup I needed.
He tends to avoid me now.

 

[noisedude]

The operative word in your post noisy is "good".
Unfortunately, there is nothing which fits that description within 30 miles of here.

Here's how it usually goes

1. drop off item to be repaired/obtain approx time frame
2. call back at time given, "item is with guitar tech, but he's backlogged".
3. wait another 2 weeks
4. go back to store
5. find item in same place I put it
6. Two months pass/finally repairs complete!
7. Receive item back in same condition as before

Sounds like a pile of bullcrap! Send it back, get your money back and buy a good guitar from a reputable dealer ... even if you have to mail-order it.

There are Ibanez and Yamaha guitars that are better at that price point anyway.

 

[Light]

A good shop would do a setup on a guitar before letting it leave the shop. I do fret dresses even down to the cheapest strat copies ... anything less and frankly I won't sleep at night.

Maybe they should, but you know they don't all do so. I always tell people to expect that a new guitar is going to need a setup when they buy it. Factory setups are a joke, and a store which is moving a lot of volume just doesn't have the time or ability to (much less the staff) to do a lot of work to them all. Add to that the importance of playing style to the setup, and I don't have a problem with stores not doing that work (but then, I make a lot of money from stores who don't setup guitars for their customers).

I don't get even Taylors in to know but I imagine that amongst their various modernisations of acoustic guitars they will have addressed the issue. I think it's caused by the block under the neck expanding? And do Taylor, like Godin etc, use bolt-ons?

Taylors current neck system is an industrial wonder of the world. They've always had bolt on necks, but about five years ago or so, they went to a new neck which is set in to the body a bit, and which not only bolts on the neck, but also the fingerboard extension. Their web site probably has a thing on the NT neck (New Technology, which it isn't by the way, it was originally done by a guy back around 1900 whose name I can't remember). It's kind of cool. You can do a complete neck reset in about 15-20 minutes. They say faster on the DVD they sent us, but their kind of selling the product there. They even have shims all made up for the reset. It does kind of fuck up their cutaways, but they were fucked up already anyway (though still better than Lariveé’s cutaway).


Light

"Cowards can never be moral."
M.K. Gandhi