Narrowing Down a new Interface

[Vivat]

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[ecc83]

I've been doing my homework on audio interfaces and have it narrowed down to a few choices. I mostly record guitar by myself or single instruments but would also like the ability to properly mic up a drum set (not sure how many mics needed for rock/metal 8-10 would be my guess?) so expandability via ADAT would be needed.

So far I've got:

-Audient Id24 or Id44. The build quality is all metal which I like, and the preamps seem to be well regarded. The only thing I've read is the headphone jack for monitoring with headphones is not great for high impedance headphones? Doesn't quite have the power to drive all headphone types. Gain seems a bit less than the others listed but still adequate.

-SSL12 from reviews seems like it has a ton of gain and power to drive headphones. Transparent sounding preamps. Build quality is plastic, that kind of turns me off a bit but it seems well built still according to reviews.

-Motu UltraLite MK5. Don't know as much about the Motu, I've read they can have driver issues with Windows?

If anybody has any experience comparing these interfaces & the software they come with or what they'd recommend I'd appreciate it. I should mention I'd be using this interface with Windows and most likely Ableton for the DAW so if anyone knows of any drivers issues or compatibility issues chime in.

Thank you.

Can't help you much but I can I think scotch the bad press about MOTU? They are in about the top handful of AI makers that have truly excellent Windows drivers. I have a modest M4, as does my son and we have no issues at all with driver stability or obtaining low latency even with pretty basic PCs. In my case a Lenovo T510 i7 8G ram.
MOTU are also VERY helpful and pleasant people to deal with.

You can of course go very "top end" and expensive but, IMHO the prices do not reflect much of an improvement over good, middle of the road gear, especially if you don't have a pro' treated room and £10k monitors. The one exception to that rule would I say be RME. For sound quality, reliability, THE best low latency drivers in the business and support through all that Microsoft can throw at us they cannot be beaten.

N.B. I have NO commercial interests with the RME company....'King wish I did!

https://www.soundonsound.com/reviews/motu-ultralite-mk5
Knew I had read something about a MOTU recentlyish! SoS have probably reviewed most of the MOTU range over the years, and RME.

Dave.

 

[Deleted member 196982]

The mic preamps in almost any of the main names in audio interfaces are clean and flat and typically noise-free to the normal ear, especially given most home recording places have an ambient noise floor well above, as in a dozen or two of dB, any inherent noise in the preamps. And, per Julian Krause's measurements, just the noise from your condenser mics is almost certainly above the background noise of your modern interface, before you start measuring the background noise.

Personally, I'd consider Focusrite Scarlett 4th Gen being worth a look. I had good luck with an earlier Saffire model that had 4-mic pres (and augmented with a Behringer 8x ADAT).

The 16i6 (4th Gen) looks like a good bargain with just 2 preamps, and the 18i6 has 4. Both have ADAT, and their new preamps have 69dB of gain, so no worries with any wimpy dynamics you decide to use. (The 2i2 is a lower cost model but lacks ADAT and extra analog I/O.) They also state their headphone amp is much improved to work well with high impedance headphones. I haven't seen a review from Julian Krause on these models, but I would not be worried at all about Windows driver support as they've been in the business for a long time.

I think you can get a decent mic-up of a club-size drum kit with 4 mics, though drummers may [likely] disagree. You can always (and often do) change out the kick and snare with a sample, so then single mics on those are sufficient, and a couple well-placed overheads usually give you enough to get by. Of course, the ADAT unit will expand you +8 and then you can do what you want, but unless you close mic everything, and that's a lot of specialized clips, you'll end up with just a lot more "overheads," IMHO.

 

[Papanate]

on two of them

Good Flat preamps - solid unit - the ins and outs are on the back - it has Optical ins and outs - I don’t know many who use Optical anymore. - Good Unit - Pricey

SSL12 fr

Not the same Preamps as the ID44 - but they sound the same - generous ins and outs and has midi - Good unit - Plugin Suite which may or may not serve you . Mid Pricey

Motu UltraLite MK5.

I think this a great unit - a ton of ins/outs, Opticals in/out, Midi , USB C which you must have to use it - PreAmps are the same as everyone elses. Pricey though.


Between the three you are getting the same quality of preamps and ins/outs , Midi on two of them - but of the three I like the Motu best.

 

[ecc83]

", USB C which you must have to use it" Don't think so Mr P? My M4 has USB C but works fine* from a USB 2.0 port, in fact there are very few AIs that actually NEED USB 3.0+ speed. The Mk5 does need the power supply which is mentioned in the review as a slight 'con' but I think 99.9% of the time peeps are using interfaces with mains supplies readily to hand?

I did read recently that "The Powers That Be" are trying to rationalize USB nomenclature. The letter ONLY refers to the connector type. The number, 2.0, 3.0, 3.1 (there is a 4 but I doubt I shall ever see one!) rates the speed but even this is open to misinterpretation.

*It even works, 'stand alone' as a mic pre, cans amp etc run from a 5V phone battery!

Dave.

 

[ecc83]

Newer kid on the block...

Forum

www.soundonsound.com

Dave.

 

[Papanate]

", USB C which you must have to use it" Don't think so Mr P? My M4 has USB C but works fine* from a USB 2.0 port, in fact there are very few AIs that actually NEED USB 3.0+ speed. The Mk5 does need the power supply which is mentioned in the review as a slight 'con' but I think 99.9% of the time peeps are using interfaces with mains supplies readily to hand?

You can use a cable to covert but it is not as good - if you want the maximum efficiency you should be using USB C - and there is a difference and it’s noticable.

 

[ecc83]

You can use a cable to covert but it is not as good - if you want the maximum efficiency you should be using USB C - and there is a difference and it’s noticable.

Is it measureable? If you check that SoS site the ID48 uses a C connector but is a USB 2.0 device as most AIs are.

Dave.

 

[Papanate]

Is it measureable? If you check that SoS site the ID48 uses a C connector but is a USB 2.0 device as most AIs are.

I have not measured it - My MacBook Pro M3Pro is the guideline for me - Maybe it’s the MacBook and not the USB?

 

[TalismanRich]

Dave is right, the A, B and C are the USB connectors, also the micro USB and Mini USB. The USB level (2, 3, 3.1, 3.2 and 4) specify both speed and available power delivery for running devices. USB 1 and 2 could supply 500ma at 5V. USB3 can supply 900mA. USB 3.2 Gen 2 is up to 1.5A. USB PD and USB4 both have very high power delivery spec (100 to 200 Watts).

 

[Deleted member 196982]

I have not measured it - My MacBook Pro M3Pro is the guideline for me - Maybe it’s the MacBook and not the USB?

And, just to further confuse things, your computer has Thunderbolt 4 ports, which support lots of stuff. NB, lots of "buts" in the following:

Three Thunderbolt 4 ports with support for:

• Charging
• DisplayPort
• Thunderbolt 4 (up to 40Gb/s)
• USB 4 (up to 40Gb/s)

But, what does the interface use, or need? You have to read the specs to find out. The SSL 12, for instance, is a hybrid:

• USB bus-powered audio interface for Mac/Windows - power is provided by USB 3.0, audio via the USB 2.0 protocol

So, you're good to go with a USB-C cable, but (yes, another one) USB 3.0 power and speed is supported on all preceding cables, if they're constructed properly. You'll typically see this when the port or connector are color coded blue. My previous, '17 iMac supported USB 3.0 with USB-A ports, all with blue plastic. Didn't go all the way to USB 3.2, but it did support the higher speed transfer of my interface, using a separate driver (even class compliant back then didn't support high-speed transfer), but, as SSL shows, it's unlikely your interface needs or even supports it [3.0] for low-latency. (p.s./edit not sure about the blue - some [USB-A 3.x] things are blue, or marked SS. Even my 2012 Mini had USB 3.0 ports, all USB-A, and they supported higher speeds, but not power back then.)

 

[TalismanRich]

Actually testing showed that USB3.x generally won't improve latency.

It wasn't due to the transfer rate of the data, but the polling of the buffer vs sample rate. Minimum latency is Buffer size/sample rate * 1000 = latency in mS. 256 samples/44100 is 5.8 mS input delay. You can't get below that, but processing in the computer for things like plugins plus sending data back out can add if you are monitoring the processed audio. That's why going to 88 or 96k improves latency as long as the computer is fast enough to handle the processing. Most current computer should easily handle the data.

Thunderbolt is more efficient in the computer vs USB, which means you can generally run a lower buffer setting without losing data. It was originally designed to handle video signals, which require more data at high speeds. It was combination of PCIe and DisplayPort .

 

[noah330]

Are you sure you need 8-10 mics on your drums? What kind of room are you recording in?

Arturia interfaces fly under the radar but are great and come with excellent software. Any of the prosumer types of interfaces will have preamps that work and sound clean. I don't think there will be a big difference between Focusrite, SSL, or UA.

I would buy something expandable as you said, but I would probably be looking at buying one or two nice mics to start building out some quality gear you can have for a long time.

 

[GeorgeGoodnight]

I’ve just bought a MOTU M2 and it drives my AKG K240DF 600ohm headphones nicely. I had the SSL2 mk2 for one day and sent it back. Not as nicely built as the MOTU and the headphone out was lower than the M4.