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vicenzajay

vicenzajay

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Hi all - just had a few sessions with a local metal band (young) and used Naiant mics for overheads and snare...rough mixes, but Jon does great work. There were only four mics used on the drums (band was recorded together - not everyone was there for each session as can be noted by missing instruments). Drum mics were MSH-2's for overheads, MSH-1K for snare, D-6 for the kick. DAW was a laptop fed by two Firepods.


CFI - first song live session.wma (converted to a .wma file for quicker download albeit lower level of quality)
CFI - Henry Song mix live session.wav
Taylor Band Fourth Song first live session.wav
 
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Hey, do you notice any distortion from your mics? Mine distort like hell, luckily I'm the only one hearing it. In the mix the cymbals still sound great but the mics are really compressed sounding(and the waveforms are just bricks crawling across the screen)and distorting badly. I just assumed I was pumping way too much spl and that maybe they should just be used for acoustic guitar.
 
The guitar sounded pretty alright, the drums sounded alright/okay (i didnt like how the snare sounds...and some of the cymbals...and the vocals(done with the es-58, as u said in another thread)sounded pretty alright..especially for a 30 dollar mic hah. But as the person above me said, there sounds like there is some distortion in like..the bass? idk.
 
jonnyc

Hey, do you notice any distortion from your mics? Mine distort like hell, luckily I'm the only one hearing it. In the mix the cymbals still sound great but the mics are really compressed sounding(and the waveforms are just bricks crawling across the screen)and distorting badly. I just assumed I was pumping way too much spl and that maybe they should just be used for acoustic guitar.

I agree - the bricks can "crawl" across the screen if I'm not really careful with the gains on the FP10 during the soundcheck, and it does take some EQ to get a decent mix of cymbals and toms.

Not sure I hear a ton of distortion though - could be my ears aren't hearing it well as I have (as always) quite a bit to learn. I really did like the tom/cymbal image of the "third song" above, and I didn't push a ton of spl on the track, so maybe that's it. Having given kudos to Jon, I do have to say that (all things considered) I prefer using the Joe Meek overheads as they tend to have a more "out-of-the-box" great sound for live overheads. I wanted to wring out the Naiant mics with this group as the project is aiming at a demo CD vice anything production oriented. I'm positively impressed given the size, price, portability, and utility.
 
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Hmmm...

The guitar sounded pretty alright, the drums sounded alright/okay (i didnt like how the snare sounds...and some of the cymbals...and the vocals(done with the es-58, as u said in another thread)sounded pretty alright..especially for a 30 dollar mic hah. But as the person above me said, there sounds like there is some distortion in like..the bass? idk.

Agree on the guitar - the rhythm guitar is actually a clean track (I do two tracks always with guitars - clean split through DI and mic the cab). I put a simulanalog plug in on the clean track and liked it better. The lead guitar is through a mic'd Traynor CV50 blue (Audix D-4). I'm actually fine with the cymbals as this drummer's kit is pretty basic - what you're hearing are the results of a fairly precise set of mics recording a fairly pedestrian set of cymbals. Agree on the snare - he forgot his mutes and my two sets are out on loan - so I "tuned" his drums with tissue paper and masking tape. Although much better than without, the snare still has a very annoying "bong" going on vice a satisfying crack. At this point I'm still o.k. with what I've done to eq it, however, as it at least sits in the mix vice dominating the kit with the ringing "bong". The msh-1k definitely picked up the snare "exactly" how it was sounding that day. His toms actually sound pretty good to me...especially on the "fourth" track.

I don't hear any distortion on the bass track at all - just a hard pick attack and the normal grit from a tube amp (taken post preamp through a D.I.) JonnyC (I believe) was talking about distortion he hears on "his" tracks when using the Naiant mics vice any distortion on these particular tracks. Average DB for the rendered wav mixes peaked at -3 or so, so you should have a fairly hot mix without too much distortion as the individual tracks did not clip at all. Any artifact distortion could be from the light overall mix premastering compression and the light peak limiter on the same bus, but I don't hear too much there and I definitely tried to keep any pumping/breathing out of the rendered levels.

DAW was Reaper (www.reaper.fm) and most of the plugins are of the "rea..." type.
 
Ahh...idk..just either the kick drum or bass..sounded weird on Henry Song hah idk...maybe my speakers? i do not know but overall that and the first song were pretty good mixes. Now i know you said that you used the es-58, but have you ever used the es-57 by any chance?
 
Tom...

Ahh...idk..just either the kick drum or bass..sounded weird on Henry Song hah idk...maybe my speakers? i do not know but overall that and the first song were pretty good mixes. Now i know you said that you used the es-58, but have you ever used the es-57 by any chance?

Yeah - there are definitely quite a few "mistakes" made by the group in these tracks - especially with the whole "metal" genre and how it applies to bass and kick drum. Being a bass player myself, I would have written a COMPLETELY different line that would let me lock-in with the bass drum vice attempting to "layer" the guitars an octave lower. It makes for really fast "bass-picking" in drop-C tuning...not the most precise (or flattering) way of playing the bass (imo). I'm actually fairly proud of the way I'm treating that track to fatten it up and even it out given the playing and technique - but then again, the bass is my instrument. I think that may be what you're hearing - I hear it as "fighting" between the bass and kick drum and it actually caused me to EQ the kick with much more click and less LF than usual as they definitely weren't "complementing" each other well. I'll play around with it more to try and find something that will work a bit better. I saw in another thread that you were looking at kick mics - this is a D-6, btw.

Again - young kids writing original stuff (kudos to them) - they have a lot to learn, but at least they're willing to hang it out there and be recorded...I'm guessing they'll improve massively from listening to the results. I considered it a good chance to break out the Naiant mics and try them out on a live kit all together in the same room with the band. I did use some Clearsonic sorbers and the room is treated a bit with Auralex panels, but it's still a pretty "live" room.

As for the ES-57 - yes, I use it all the time. I actually used it to mic the rythm guitar's cab, but I did not like both the tone of the cab or the bleed through on that track - so I used the clean track with the plug-in. Come to think of it, though, on the "fourth song", the lead guitar is actually mic'd with an ES-57...give it a listen again.

Jay
 
Being previously from the metal genres and still listening to a lot of prog metal and thrash because i can't get it out of my system.. the drums need to cut through more. You definitely need to do something with the snare to fatten it up as well as the bass drum. You need the "click" and tight focused bass drum sound or a lot of the beat is lost in the mix... which is happening for me right now, I am losing the sound of the kick because it is overlaping with the bass. What type of beater was used? I also think the drums could come up in the mix as well... they are in the "background" a little too much. Not sure I can hear the mic distortion though.. but maybe its because i play everything on 10 on my amps as well? lol. Recording is not easy though so good job.. the vocals seemed to turn out well I think. Consistent.

(p.s- I'd also bring up that keyboard in the melodic parts)
 
...

good gobos...get some. They will help with the bleed, plus make the box room sound go away. Try for better sonic seperation, make sure stuff doesn't step on each other...

Try out the SSL and API plugins from Waves, they have free demos. They should help.

Small stuff builds up. Listen to who they think they sound like, make them sound like that as much as possible.

Keep up the work, pay attention to every little detail. :D
 
Agree...

Being previously from the metal genres and still listening to a lot of prog metal and thrash because i can't get it out of my system.. the drums need to cut through more. You definitely need to do something with the snare to fatten it up as well as the bass drum. You need the "click" and tight focused bass drum sound or a lot of the beat is lost in the mix... which is happening for me right now, I am losing the sound of the kick because it is overlaping with the bass. What type of beater was used? I also think the drums could come up in the mix as well... they are in the "background" a little too much. Not sure I can hear the mic distortion though.. but maybe its because i play everything on 10 on my amps as well? lol. Recording is not easy though so good job.. the vocals seemed to turn out well I think. Consistent.

(p.s- I'd also bring up that keyboard in the melodic parts)

And a good testimonial to the fact that the best start is a well-put together, well-tuned kit - which this kid does not have. I'll help him with it. His bass drum and beater sound like complete mush - it's actually fairly amazing what EQ and plugins have already done to give it some definition. It's also why the drums aren't "up" in the mix - they're all too "mushy" and unfocused at the start. Completely agree on the snare as I mentioned above.

Again - this was a chance to put out some stuff done with the Naiant mics - not a "recording" show. Appreciate the thoughts.

Jay
 
good gobos...get some. They will help with the bleed, plus make the box room sound go away. Try for better sonic seperation, make sure stuff doesn't step on each other...

Try out the SSL and API plugins from Waves, they have free demos. They should help.

Small stuff builds up. Listen to who they think they sound like, make them sound like that as much as possible.

Keep up the work, pay attention to every little detail. :D

The SSL guitar presets suck..the compressor is okay, and the eq/channel strip is alright..help with bass, but they arent worth paying 700 dollars for them.
 
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