My setup and condenser mics for amps

[Dominate_Virus]

I can't get a half decent sound that doesn't sound like a distorted walkie-talkie and it is making me lose my shit. Your help would be VERY much appreciated.

My setup is:

- M-Audio Profire 610
- Abelton 8 Lite
- Shure SM58 <- may be the problem
- Gibson Les Paul Studio
- Pevey Envoy 110

The only thing that seems to work is if I crank the 'Pull' on the interface and crank my amp volume.
Before buying my interface my hopes were to record in my apartment with the volume low. Would this be possible if I were to use a condenser mic?

Thanks

 

[Armistice]

Hi...

Describe the sound you're trying to achieve... reference it to something we've heard before... a particular artist perhaps.

Also, as I'm not familiar with the amp... what type is it... tube / solid state.... wattage (or is that the 110? - I'm thinking that's the speaker 1 x 10" thou...).

Is the sound you want actually coming out of your amp while you're playing? ie. if it's not there in the first place, you ain't (probably) going to be able to record it..

A condensor probably is not the answer... a 57 is a vocal mic but is relatively close to a 57, which is more known as an instrument mic.. so you should be able to get something decent...

Where are you placing said 58 in relation to the speaker?

 

[Dominate_Virus]

I'm not picky about the sound, I'm just going for a typical distortion but not too heavy or fuzzy because I'm playing full chords that have higher notes to add detail. So too distorted would just make a messy sound oppose to how simple power chords would sound. If I had to name bands that I'd like my sound to be similar I'd list: The Strokes, Arctic Monkeys, The Killers, SUM 41 and any band that uses lite distortion really. My problem is that I can't get a proper sound at all, not that I have one in mind and can't obtain a specific one.

Pevey Envoy 110:
The Amp is a Trans-Tube 40 Watt, I have the sound coming out of it that I like but the louder I crank it the worse it sounds. I've tried another amp too just to see but the problem is the same. It's just really bad recording quality, but from the price tag and reviews I was expecting the M-Audio Profire 610 to get a high quality sound.

Mic Placement:
I have tried placing the mic in a bunch of different places around the corner of the amp and an inch away. I've done research on mic placement and tried a million and three different spots.

I honestly think that it's the mic, the SM58 that I have is sold as a vocal mic oppose to an instrument mic as the SM57.
What affect would the condenser mic have? I'm pretty set on that idea so far...

 

[jjjtttggg]

Sorry to sound disagreeable (sp?), but I don't think a 57 would sound a whole lot different from your 58. How sure are you, though, that it's a real SM58? I don't know this for a fact, but I've read that there are a great many counterfeit SM58's in the market, sometimes sold even by reputable dealers who don't know any better. That's probably not it, but ya never know. Search "counterfeit sm58". There are things to look for on the mic to help confirm its the real deal.

How distorted is the sound you are trying to record? I sound like a broken record, because I always go here, but I've done it myself so many times, that it just always seems like a possibility when someone says they don't like their recorded guitar sound. For whatever reason (that I don't really understand), for overdriven guitar, to get it to sound the way you like recorded, it will generally need to sound cleaner than you like live. I can't count the number of times I've listened to my own playback and said "Oops, too much drive!!!!".


As for your amp... I don't know. I'm a bit of a snob about amps and that may be entirely unfair in this case, because I've never heard this amp... Lot's of good review it seems, but looking at the specs, I read "TransTube" to mean "NotTube". Like I say, that may be totally unfair, and I don't mean to sound negative, but you are trying to get a sound in your recording that your amp is first trying to "emulate" for the microphone. It's a modelling amp... Does it have a line out that you could perhaps record direct. That may actually sound better than micing it.

Assuming that the modelling is "true", the other thing I will say (that applies to tube amps anyway) is for a given distortion level, you should try to get there by turning the master volume up and keeping the gain as low as you can to get the breakup that you are looking for. In a tube amp, you want to overdrive the power tubes and output transformer to get the real deal as far as overdrive sound is concerned, rather than overdriving the preamp tubes and then just passing this overdriven sound through the power tubes as-is. If this effect is modelled in your amp, you may like the sound of recording it crazy loud. If the effect is not modelled, or not modelled accurately, well it will just be crazy loud...

Maybe someone with experience wth that particular amp will comment. I'm sure it can make good recordings. Often times it's just a matter of finding the sweet spot whatever the gear.

Good luck,
J

 

[Armistice]

Condensor mics are more accurate and way more sensitive - they're not always the first choice for miking guitar cabs though.

I traditionally use a 57 on the grill about halfway out from the centre, and sometimes I'll put a LDC about 3 feet back for some "room".

If you're not short of a quid, then I don't think buying a 57 is something you'll regret, that's for sure (or for Shure.. ha ) - useful thing to have in the armory, and also good for banging in nails, and as an offensive weapon.

Can't guarantee without hearing it that it'll fix your problem though. Do you know anyone who'll lend you one to see if it makes a difference? I've never tried it myself but you'll often hear people say that a 58 is just a 57 with a popscreen and round ball on the end...

I don't think that's the case, I think the 58 is somehow "optimised" for vocals in terms of frequency response, but they're certainly similar.