My mixes sound better a lower volumes

  • Thread starter Thread starter BRIEFCASEMANX
  • Start date Start date
BRIEFCASEMANX

BRIEFCASEMANX

Winner chicken dinner!
I remember reading of a mastering house that judged whether mixes were good enough to be mastered by if it sounded good very low as well as very loud. Why is this? What does it mean to have it sound better at a lower volume than loud? Are my mixes creamy and milky enough?
 
It has to do with the way the human ear perceives sound. Loud levels while mixing will give you a false sense of the level of high and especially low frequencies in your mix. This is because humans are most sensitive to midrange frequencies. If you mix too loudly your Lows and highs will disappear at lower volume. This is called the Fletcher-Munson effect, named after two researches that documented the phenomenon at Bell Labs in the early 1930’s.

-Tim :)
 
It "should" sound good at ANY volume - The problem with a lot of current music is that you can't crank it up. It ONLY sounds acceptable at low volume, because it's too squashed and fatiguing to turn it up.

Hopefully, your don't fall into that category...

Mixes should sound good cranked up - 90dB or better. A pop/rock/metal mix should sound dynamic and exciting. Percussive sounds should jump out and impact against you (as opposed to a wall of constant niose). It should still sound acceptable at low levels - Well below 80dB.
 
It's not too squashed because it's not mastered and the mix alone pales in comparison to the "loudness" of commercial cd's. I think what happened is that I didn't understand the input and output gain stages on my preamp(chandler tg2) when I recorded the guitars so they are distorted in places and this becomes more apparent the louder the volume and everything is extremely colored sounding. I started using the preamp right after I got it without reading the manual or just using common sense. You live and you learn I guess.
 
Another issue other than compression is the color of the mix. A mix that contains a lot of high mid content can be just as fatiguing to the ears as hypercompressed material since the ear is more sensitive to these frequencies.

A good mix should stand up when raising it to a "reasonable level" as well as at lower volumes.
 
i'll bet he's just scooped a bunca mids out in tracking and mixing, so at low volumes it's kinda like haveing the "loudness" switch on but at higher volumes it becomes apperant that thare aren't enough mids.

maby.....
 
no I think there might be too many mids actually, that and the guitar distorting in some places, too much "color" from the pre-amp, as well as each element maybe not having enough of it's own space aka too much frequency masking going on. Oh well it was a free demo recording for my friends, I nor do they have enough time/don't care enough to retrack or even remix. I'll post some samples for you guys to listen to probably tomorrow. Just a warning, you guys aren't going to like the music AT ALL. But you can probably give me some pointers production-wise.
 
"My mixes sound better a lower volumes"

You're lucky. Mine only sound good when the volume's turned totally off.
 
RAMI said:
"My mixes sound better a lower volumes"

You're lucky. Mine only sound good when the volume's turned totally off.
Ha that aint true RAMI.

Yeah could be that there are too much mids. Easy enough to work out if there are too many mids though. If you turn your volume up loud an your find it hard to be able to keep listening to it (your ears dont like the sound, not you own peronal take on the mix, but your ears) then your mids are too hi. 1k-2.5k is a nastt band width when too loud especialy when listened to at loud volumes. That will kill your hearing that band width, im sure.
 
Yep the area around 2-3K is often times where people boost the freqs on elec. guitars, or can be due to micing directly on the cone of the speaker. This gets really nasty/shrill with distorted electrics and immediately makes me want to turn it off if done to excess.

I HATE that stuff ...
 
well here you go......my friends band Rebel Red Renegades



 
The Second One Sounds Better, But The Guitarist Was Using A Heavy Distortion And On The Other He Was Using An Overdrive Pedal.
 
Actually, I think everyone here so far may have misunderstood your question.


Everyone thinks you meant that your stuff sounds better when you play it back at lower volumes.

But I think what you're trying to say is that your stuff sounds better when everyone is playing quieter.

This is very common, and has to do with a few factors:

1) Clipping, or exceeding the natural input headroom of all or parts of your signal chain.

2) Nasty-sounding distortion or cymbals that rear their ugly heads on the heavier / louder parts.

3) Playing too aggressively / hard. Takes away a lot of tone from the instrument. Example: on guitars, it accentuates the picking sound rather than the resonance of the strings. On bass, it accentuates the sharp "pluck" of the string, rather than the "thump" of the bass.

I always tell people: On the louder/heavier parts, don't play harder. Instead, play more intently and with more intensity, and that will come off to the listener as being heavier / louder.
 
Yeah I was definitely exceeding the natural headroom on my preamp, I had the input gain about as high as it would go and the output fader rolled back. Although I don't think everyone misunderstood my question, in regards to them playing to hard that is very intersting and something I never thought about. Especially with the guitar, because I know he has a decent enough amp, so i figured it was just bad mic placement that was getting the plucking sound, but now that i think about it he does play pretty hard especially during heavier/louder parts. Crappy cymbal sound/distortion was partly due to bad mic placement/bad mics though. The cymbals sounded slightly a little better in the room, although they were cracked :eek:. Thank you very much, any other input anyone has would be great.
 
By the way, my comments weren't directed towards your samples you posted, as I didn't actually get a chance to listen to them. I was just posting a very general recommendation / suggestion based on past experiences.
 
chessrock said:
By the way, my comments weren't directed towards your samples you posted, as I didn't actually get a chance to listen to them. I was just posting a very general recommendation / suggestion based on past experiences.

well thanks anyway it applied, and will help in the future.
 
masteringhouse said:
Yep the area around 2-3K is often times where people boost the freqs on elec. guitars, or can be due to micing directly on the cone of the speaker. This gets really nasty/shrill with distorted electrics and immediately makes me want to turn it off if done to excess.

I HATE that stuff ...

Can you enlighten me a little on what you mean by micing directly on the cone? Where else would you palce the mic? By cone do you mean the speaker, or the bit in the middle of the speaker?
 
ecktronic said:
Can you enlighten me a little on what you mean by micing directly on the cone? Where else would you palce the mic? By cone do you mean the speaker, or the bit in the middle of the speaker?

Yea, he's talking about the speaker cone (directly in the middle of the speaker). That's why folks like to mic off-axis a lot of the time.

I generally mic just off the cone ... literally a half-inch or so to the side.
 
ecktronic said:
Can you enlighten me a little on what you mean by micing directly on the cone? Where else would you palce the mic? By cone do you mean the speaker, or the bit in the middle of the speaker?
The "cone" of a speaker is the cone-shaped, larger, outer part of the loudspeaker. The central, dome-shapd part of the loudspeaker is called the "dustcap" (or sometimes just the "cap" or "dome") The ring where the two meet is called the "voice coil gap".

There is often a misnomer floating around where people call the central dustcap dome the "cone". This is technically not correct wording, and can cause some confusion. I, for example am confused as to whether MasteringHouse was referring to the dustcap dome or the cone. By his description of the shrill sounds (which I agree with entirely, BTW), it sounds like he may actually be referring to the dome and not the actual cone itself. I'll ask him to correct me if I'm wrong there. (wouldn't be the first time ;) ).

One can mic the louspeaker anywhere they like on these loudspeakers, depending on their taste and the requirements of the song. Also placement of the mic pointing directly in at the speaker (on-axis) or at an angle (off-ais) makes a big difference too.

As always, there are exceptions, but in general here's how it breaks down. These each are assuming on-axis mic placement:

- Miking on the dome tends to accentuate the higher freqs and higher freq distortions.

- Miking on the voice coil tends to result in the lowest speaker-induced distortion and in that way gives the closest analog to the sound that is coming from the amplifier itself.

- Miking on the cone tends to accuentate the warmer, lower frequencies and produce lower amplitude and/or smoother transients, but it also tends to accentuate distortions caused by distortions in the surface of the cone itself that come when the voice coil tried pushing the cone faster than the physical material of the cone can respond (distortion by inertia.) The further from the center of the cone you get, the "warmer" the response but the greater the interial distortion.

The distortions (or lack thereof) mentioned above are not necessarily bad, sometimes such distortions are what give that cabinet it's particular sound, which might be desireable. Sometimes though they can be unwnted. The choice is up to the engineer as to what sounds best.

Moving mic orientation from on-axis to off-axis, like Chesrock and many others prefer, takes advantage of the off-axis response of the microphone and uses that to create a more favorable coloring of the sound. It can also, in some close-miked cardioids, reduce low frequency emphasis caused by "the proximity effect" present in most cardioid micrphones.

It takes a lot of expirimentation with different mics, placements and cabinets to determine wht you might like best for any given configuration. There is no one right answer that covers all situations. Many of us tend to gravitate towards favorite or familiar techniques. Mine happens to be almost identical to Chessrock's; I tend to like pointing in towards the voice coil with an SM57 at about 30-40 degress off axis at a distance of just a couple of inches myself. But this can easily change based upon cabinet type, song style and even the musician's playing style and effects pedals he like to use. Others may prefer other methods, and that's OK too. If we all sounded the same way, all music would sound the same. And if the Boy Bands taught us anything, they taught us that's not a good thing. :)

G.
 
Back
Top