My first ever mix - Rock/Metal - please be brutal!

  • Thread starter Thread starter martinkendall
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I think the bass is out of tune, or at least whatever string is playing in the intro. It's higher in pitch than the guitars.

The drums need the most work. Listen to 00:50-00:58. They're out of time. I can't hear the hi hat or ride or any time keeping cymbal without seeking it out in depth.

This sounds like it was mixed by a guitar player, not an all around musician. Vocals are mixed well, but with the super loud guitars and sloppy, poorly mixed drums, it's almost moot. And I hate the word moot. It gives me the creeps.
 
Thanks so much for taking the time to listen and share your feedback. The tuning thing hasn't been mentioned before so I'll certainly go back and look at that - thanks.

Similarly with the drums, i can only think it's the other instruments that are out of time - the drums are midi and pretty grid aligned - but it might just be the actual pattern that you're not keen on? Anyway I'll go back and listen to the section you mentioned and see what i can do to improve the feel!

It was mixed by a guitar player, you're right. I'm trying to learn more about everything else and improve :). The drums have been the hardest part for me, i think they're a lot better than my previous 3 versions of this song but i accept I'm still not confident with getting them to sound right. I don't​ personally feel the guitars are super loud, but that could well be my skewed, guitar player perspective like you suggested - I'll solicit more feedback specifically on the levels.

So - to takeaway for version 5 I'll be
-checking for tuning issues on the bass
-Revisiting the drums to see if the tightness can be improved
-Continuing to try and improve the drum mix
-Experimenting with less loud guitars

Cheers!
 
Interesting song. Good playing and composition. I like the singing too. Agreed on the timing issues as well. Are you running a compressor or limiter on main bus? Sounds like as drums come in, everything else reduces volume somewhat. What are you using for your drum sampling?
 
Drums are ezdrummer2 - yes it's limited and that's one of the main criticisms I've had so far - everything too squashed. Will be working on that!

Re timing issues, could you elaborate? I want to get to the bottom of them and fix as I'm not hearing it. (But i accept it's there!)
 
Listening again, the timing issue is there as early as the first verse, to my ears. The guitars might be jumping ahead then, if the drums are lined up on the grid. Regarding that, don't have your drums perfectly time aligned. Move them all slightly ahead and slightly behind the lines, once in awhile going further out or back than usual. Hitting the "humanize" feature gives you a good idea of how far you can move them without sounding sloppy, as it adds the human element to the feel. But you'll probably want to get in there and manually adjust a lot of the drum hits by hand in regards to time (not being on the grid always). No guitar player is going to play in perfect time, so there's no reason the drums need to be either - that might be what's causing the lagging feeling of the guitar/drums.

Also, in the chorus, I think you have a kick hit that isn't fitting with the rhythm. If you selected a preset/written groove, then reexamine its fit to the rhythm you want in the chorus. It seems there's a kick hit out of place. Listen to 3:27-3:28 (that's a pretty exact spot) and you'll hear a lagging feeling. It might an extra kick or lagging snare, not sure. Something is out of time though. But whatever is happening there is happening throughout the tune, and it's distracting to the rhythm.
 
Thanks a lot. I'll check out the bits you mentioned. Drums are not completely snapped to grid, they're loops that have been edited to (hopefully) better fit the song.

Really appreciate you taking the time to listen twice and help. I'll post again when there's a new version!
 
Just listened and I hear what you mean in that section. Kick pattern is weird. I think what happened was i took a stock beat, then edited the kick pattern to match the bass - but left in a beat that shouldn't be there. I'll fix that! It does sound distracting
 
martinkendall said:
Just listened and I hear what you mean in that section. Kick pattern is weird. I think what happened was i took a stock beat, then edited the kick pattern to match the bass - but left in a beat that shouldn't be there. I'll fix that! It does sound distracting
Click to expand...

That could be it. That's the issue with the preset grooves. They're ok to jam with and sound like they'll fit, but you have to make sure your rhythm section is actually the same with the kick hits. Lots of times, we're only listening to hats and snare or for particular kick hits to be there, and not paying attention to the extra stuff.
 
Those drums are pretty heavy on the reverb. Are you tracking the rest of the instruments with that in place? If so, that might be making it harder for everyone else to play in time.
Also, it may just be a bit too much reverb overall. It's super-saturated even for arena rock.

Endymion? Like the Dan Simmons novel? If so, hey! we should be bffs!
 
First impression is too much reverb overall. It seems to be saturating the mix as a whole, and keeping it from being clean and punchy. Something like this should have plenty of impact, and I think the reverb is taking away from that.

Rhythm guitars are too loud at times, and there are a few minor timing issues with the drums. All the compression is hurting the mix as well.

All that said, it's actually not too far off. Fix the few timing issues, cut back on some reverb, cut back the rhythm guitars in a few spots, don't squash it as hard, and the mix as a whole will take on a new life. Vocals were done well, good job on that.
 
Thanks everyone. I'll definitely take a good look at reverb on my next attempt too!
 
Better than the first version I heard. This song has a lot of potential....just need to real it in.

First thing I noticed is that you are distorting really bad when the bass/Toms hits the real low notes. That is probably why the compressor was pumping so much on the first version I heard. You may have to go in there and automate the volume on the heavy parts so it don't overload your system like that. You may also be able to roll of the low frequencies. Also, I think the lead that is on the right is TOO FAR right. Bring it in a little more...its a tad too loud too in my opinion.

Metal is hard to mix because you want the grunt and power of the guitar and bass while having the drums clear especially the kick. You can roll off the guitar's lows without much effect and that will give the bass and kick some room to breathe.
 
the main problem in your track is not the sound,its the timing ... don't get me wrong,you have talent .. thats why im making this post ...

essentially,your drums don't fit .. what your trying to do is get easy drummer to play along with what your doing,bear in mind that EZdrummer is a thicko,even with a massive midi drum library recorded by the "best drummers in the business" you will never find one that fits ... your daw is also a stupid fooker,that also has no idea what your trying to do either ...

you as a musician (and a very good one at that) have a great sense of timing,your inbuilt timing is spot on,it gives a track its "feel" ... the daw is clinical,it is exactly in time every time,EZdrummer follows this exact timing ... the problem is these 2 things clash ...

right now your a slave to the daw,the daw is telling you what to do,and how to play it,EZdrummer follows the daw,the daws timing is perfectly in time ... you are human, the two together = car crash

each time you add another take the problem gets worse,your ears search for a beat to follow (in your track there are around 4 tempo`s trying to work together,and no,im not joking)


i hate it when people post "you must" or "you need to" .. people can talk about "tone" and "feel" till the cows come home, but you need to read and understand your DAW manual for "tempo map" this is your root problem ... fix that ;)




as a first mix the sound rocks \o/ ... your playing is great,vocals are great .. your a good musician ... this is why i come out of the woodwork to make this post :) good luck to you and i wish you well :)
 
Thanks a lot both!

Tom hits - i see what you mean and i think i can fix it.

Guitars already have all the low end rolled off. I think some of the problem may be the bass, it's split into low and mid frequency tracks and the mid one is quite distorted - giving the impression of more guitar. I think the playing of the bass needs improvement too.

Ezdrummer and timing/fit - point taken, my approach here was to take stock midi and manipulate it, but i think i need to go further.

Re the multiple tempos problem - do you think the fix is more detailed manipulation of the midi or retracking everything? My approach here was to track scratch guitars to a click, add the basic ezdrummer beat with minor customisation and then track the rest to that.

Can't thank everyone enough for taking the time to listen and help me with this.
 
I do agree with CakewalkKaKed on that too. Its easy to put have a cool riff and then put a loop behind it and think it sounds right. I have done it many of times and I get called out for it. I think we get excited that it sounds cool yet doesn't sound right to others. Find something that the kick and snare follow the guitar parts better and it will tighten up on its own.
 
make a tempo map of the guitar that is in time (you feel its right) then the daw will follow the tempo of the human ...

EZdrummer "beats" will then be in time and "fit" ... you can then quantize if need be .. but more likely some midi edits will be all thats needed

if you do this you must lock in the bass to the drums,without a solid groove there is no track,only mess .. any overdubs or re-takes will then follow the human groove ...

the tempo map makes the daw beats line up to the recorded audio ... so each beat will fall in the right place and the daw measures will be correct



but it is not enough to simply do the job,you must understand what goes on .. and how to fix when problems arise .. a tempo map can be your friend ... or an enemy .. automated tempo map making can go wrong,or make only part of the track,if you understand where and why it goes wrong you can fix in little time ...

read the daw manual ... watch utube tutorials for your daw .. but more importantly understand what goes on
 
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