Music to Murder - Falling Over

kindafishy

kindafishy

Member
Hey there HR forum types. Thanks for popping in. Please have a listen to our newest song and let us know your thoughts. I am happy to do some tweaks if there are things that should be tweaked.

As always, any and all thoughts are most welcome - good or bad, brief or detailed. Mostly interested in mix related stuff because the song is penned and the recording is in the can (obviously), but please feel free to share any thoughts because they can always be considered for future songwriting and recording of course.

Music to Murder - Falling Over
sammydix - music, vocals, lyrics, production
kindafishy - music, guitars, bass, drum programming, mixing

https://app.box.com/s/tk8dlbmqm4typu5n8u2oyot5brc7lgzp

Thanks a lot! I know how busy everyone is and how much effort leaving feedback takes. I'll be sure to return the favour.
 
The bass may be a tad too bassy or the notes ring on a bit too much.
The kick drum sounds like a death metal kick - the beater sound mainly - though I can't say I hear any deepness to it either.
Just a bit too much mid mud I think generally.
Mind you I can't hear much meat in the guitar - seems mainly top end - hi passed?
Song and performances are fine, fine, fine.
 
Very cool song and playing. I liked the bass sound. Other than that I agree with ray_c especially about the mud and that kick sound. You've got a few kick notes that sounded misplaced to me, more noticeable because the kick is prominent in this mix. My biggest problem with the mix is that the vocals are buried and seem lower than the guitars. I'm the guy who wants to hear every syllable of every word in the lyrics, so take that for what it's worth.
 
Very cool song. I think it needs to be beefier, overall. The production doesn't seem to match the badass attitude of the song. I'm not as good at pinpointing things as some of these other guys, but that's my vague take on it. I really dig the song, and the performance. The sound just needs to be bigger and nastier, somehow. The song deserves it.
 
rayc said:
The bass may be a tad too bassy or the notes ring on a bit too much.
The kick drum sounds like a death metal kick - the beater sound mainly - though I can't say I hear any deepness to it either.
Just a bit too much mid mud I think generally.
Mind you I can't hear much meat in the guitar - seems mainly top end - hi passed?
Song and performances are fine, fine, fine.
Click to expand...

Thanks man! Great detail in your notes. I really appreciate the careful listen and critique.

The bass was even a little bit more "too much" recently. I have been trying to do minimal processing figuring that folks will help me to just do a little bit more. I think that my problem here is likely the region around 180 - 220 or so perhaps. This is the area that tends to be a little wooly and rob the bass of distinction. I'll listen with a critical ear to this area.

Kick does have a lot of wood to it. Great ear. I like the character very much for this song so I want to find a way for it to work. I already attenuated the 4k-ish area to reduce this sense but I'll listen and do more there. The deepness is there, but perhaps due to the woodiness, the level and character isn't where it should be. I'll work on it.

Mid mud. Yup. I'm going for a "rock band in the room", not a "polished studio sound" sort of feel. To that, as mentioned above, I went "underboard" with everything on purpose. Just tweaking enough to get a good feel. I'll do a little more massaging here, and I think my mid-mids and upper mids might need a bit more focus as well. My intention is all subtle moves. Absolute minimum processing because I want the raw instruments presented as much as possible.

No hi passing on the guitars. Blend of two mic's with a 57 a little hotter than a ribbon. Any more body and it got VERY muddy. I can look at the Q I am using in a cut of around 360Hz on a few tracks to see if I went to far and need to back off a bit. Distorted guitars or clean guitars or both?

Thanks so much for the help! Added to my tweaking notes :).
 
Robus said:
Very cool song and playing. I liked the bass sound. Other than that I agree with ray_c especially about the mud and that kick sound. You've got a few kick notes that sounded misplaced to me, more noticeable because the kick is prominent in this mix. My biggest problem with the mix is that the vocals are buried and seem lower than the guitars. I'm the guy who wants to hear every syllable of every word in the lyrics, so take that for what it's worth.
Click to expand...

Kind words, thank you! Reaffirmation of what rayc is pointing out is great. I will work on those things. I feel like the "mud issue" is not extreme, but rather requires pretty subtle moves to "get there". Does that sound right to you or are you hearing the need for some drastic moves?

On the misplaced kick thought, I don't mind stuff being off a little and nothing has jumped out at me as needing adjustment, but as a disclaimer I am not at all sensitive to little timing issues unless it is really hurting the tune. I'll do some work on the woody kick sound which might make it a little less in focus, but in the meantime, if you are inclined to do so, could you get a little more specific about hits that are rubbing you the wrong way? If you point them out and they bug me, I am for sure open to sliding them around a little. I don't want something annoying like that to detract from the song for sure.

Vocals up, yup. I don't think it is an "across the board" thing. I think I need to do another round of going through section by section and doing a bit of manual riding to make sure they are where they are supposed to be. Would you agree with that statement or do you think they all need to come up (or forward)? I need a couple days to rest my ears from this mix, but I will be looking at the vocs for sure.

Cheers!
 
paulman77 said:
Very cool song. I think it needs to be beefier, overall. The production doesn't seem to match the badass attitude of the song. I'm not as good at pinpointing things as some of these other guys, but that's my vague take on it. I really dig the song, and the performance. The sound just needs to be bigger and nastier, somehow. The song deserves it.
Click to expand...

Thanks so much for the listen and the great feedback. I like these kinds of high level thoughts just as much as the detailed ones. Open to interpretation, but all aspects of music are, aren't they? It might be worth noting my general feeling on mixing. I don't like much in terms of "modern productions" where everything is big, distinct, featured and over the top (a famous mixer like CLA comes to mind here and I don't like the sound of any of his mixes at all). I am more into stuff that doesn't sound so studio, but rather sounds more like a gelling band. I want the mix to be out of the way of the song I guess.

What do you think? Are we discussing an aethetic general approach thing here or do you think that even within the realm of a "natural sounding mix", the song needs to be bigger and meatier?
 
The beginning of the chorus, a couple of those syncopated kick hits sound rushed to me. Believe me, I don't have the world's greatest timing, but I've struggled against the tendency to rush on bass to the point where I'm hypersensitive.
 
kindafishy said:
It might be worth noting my general feeling on mixing. I don't like much in terms of "modern productions" where everything is big, distinct, featured and over the top (a famous mixer like CLA comes to mind here and I don't like the sound of any of his mixes at all). I am more into stuff that doesn't sound so studio, but rather sounds more like a gelling band. I want the mix to be out of the way of the song I guess.

What do you think? Are we discussing an aethetic general approach thing here or do you think that even within the realm of a "natural sounding mix", the song needs to be bigger and meatier?
Click to expand...

Hmm. You've got me really thinking about this. First off, yes, I think it can be bigger and meatier while still sounding natural. I think maybe more natural is actually what I'm wanting to hear in this. It sounds a little too smooth, overall. I want to hear the growl of the guitars. I think the vocals should be a little more up front. Other than bringing the vocals out, it might be as simple as a more aggressive limiter setting on the master to get the sound I'm thinking of. And/or some EQ to bring out the coarseness of the guitars. I might be wrong though, I'm still learning. I get abstract ideas in my head and then have to go about figuring out how to achieve them through trial and error. Which I suppose is the case for anyone, but I'm still figuring out basic things. That being said, I don't think you have to have a "modern" aesthetic on this to make it tougher sounding. I'm thinking of 70's hard rock when I say that. It is blended very well, and I don't think you have to change that to achieve what I'm talking about.
 
Reminds of AIC in structure, melody, arrangement, etc... but nowhere near as heavy. I didn't hear any mud, just very smooth guitars and mellow vocals. Drums sounded good and might have fooled me if i didn't read your post beforehand. Nice fill about halfway through too, during the break. I'm hearing some kicks ahead of the beat during a particular section.
 
pop at 0:44

paulman77 said:
Very cool song. I think it needs to be beefier, overall. The production doesn't seem to match the badass attitude of the song. I'm not as good at pinpointing things as some of these other guys, but that's my vague take on it. I really dig the song, and the performance. The sound just needs to be bigger and nastier, somehow. The song deserves it.
Click to expand...

That's the big thing I'm noticing. Most of the arrangement is pretty mellow and laid-back (especially the drum patterns and the low vocals), but a couple of the vocal lines and the guitar tone (and solo) suggest it's supposed to be a heavy, driving metal song.

I do really like the mellow vocal parts tho. It's kind of lulling to hear the two parts singing back and forth; I can't make out most of the words, but I think that enhances the effect well.
 
Robus said:
The beginning of the chorus, a couple of those syncopated kick hits sound rushed to me. Believe me, I don't have the world's greatest timing, but I've struggled against the tendency to rush on bass to the point where I'm hypersensitive.
Click to expand...

Heh, I must be hyposensitive, because I can't identify any hits that feel off to me :(. Sorry man, I am totally picking up what you are laying down here but I guess the hits that are sounding off to ya are okay to me or something? I dunno. If I pick up on it and it bugs me, I will certainly do something about them. Thanks a lot.
 
paulman77 said:
Hmm. You've got me really thinking about this. First off, yes, I think it can be bigger and meatier while still sounding natural. I think maybe more natural is actually what I'm wanting to hear in this. It sounds a little too smooth, overall. I want to hear the growl of the guitars. I think the vocals should be a little more up front. Other than bringing the vocals out, it might be as simple as a more aggressive limiter setting on the master to get the sound I'm thinking of. And/or some EQ to bring out the coarseness of the guitars. I might be wrong though, I'm still learning. I get abstract ideas in my head and then have to go about figuring out how to achieve them through trial and error. Which I suppose is the case for anyone, but I'm still figuring out basic things. That being said, I don't think you have to have a "modern" aesthetic on this to make it tougher sounding. I'm thinking of 70's hard rock when I say that. It is blended very well, and I don't think you have to change that to achieve what I'm talking about.
Click to expand...

Okay, I think I'm clear on where you're going with this. Vocals will get a round of section by section automation. I think that maybe the growl of the guitars you are talking about and the meat that rayc is talking about are likely the same thing. I'm not sure what to do there to get it meatier without making it muddier (and rayc also mentioned he felt there was some mid mud happening). I'll have to think on this one. Maybe it's an EQ thing, or maybe I could accomplish it by accenting the attack a bit and just making it more 'bitey'. It might be the case that it is beyond my abilities to take it any further in this direction, but I am listening and trying to think it through.

I don't have a limiter on the mix bus, don't use one. This track is not at all pseudo-mastered as I personally don't subscribe to a mixer doing that sort of second phase work on a track.
 
andrushkiwt said:
Reminds of AIC in structure, melody, arrangement, etc... but nowhere near as heavy. I didn't hear any mud, just very smooth guitars and mellow vocals. Drums sounded good and might have fooled me if i didn't read your post beforehand. Nice fill about halfway through too, during the break. I'm hearing some kicks ahead of the beat during a particular section.
Click to expand...

AIC. I'll take that :). We certainly don't have any 'conscious' influences, in that we don't try to emulate anyone of course, but I certainly liked them and listened to them quite a bit back in the day. Sam did as well, I think. I'm a firm believer in wearing all your influences on your sleve, so I don't mind the "reminds me of" comparisons at all. One can likely figure out dozens of our influences by picking out little things here and there. We have actually heard the AIC thing before. Lots of other too...

Kicks ahead of the beat again, eh? Damn, that's really bothering me now because you and Robus are both picking up on that sort of thing and I'm not at all. Not good if my sense of timing is so out that I don't even reall recognize an issue :(. Maybe I should go section by section, examining the grid in my DAW. Maybe if I can see it, it will help me to hear it (and pick it out better in the future).

Thanks a lot for your thoughts man, and keep up the great work. Your stuff is sounding really good.
 
VomitHatSteve said:
pop at 0:44



That's the big thing I'm noticing. Most of the arrangement is pretty mellow and laid-back (especially the drum patterns and the low vocals), but a couple of the vocal lines and the guitar tone (and solo) suggest it's supposed to be a heavy, driving metal song.

I do really like the mellow vocal parts tho. It's kind of lulling to hear the two parts singing back and forth; I can't make out most of the words, but I think that enhances the effect well.
Click to expand...

Thanks VHS.

Any thoughts on taking it in a more aggressive direction without reworking the arrangement? No more recording will be done for this puppy. That part of this recording/mixing session is in the can, as we say. I don't think that is something I can change with mix moves. The song wasn't intended on being one style or another, mellow or aggressive or anything planned in that way. It just startred, grew and evolved.

If I was to say what esthetic we want for the song (or at least 'I want', and I shouldn't speak for Sammy), I would say that the production for better or worse is supposed to be 'flowy' from start to end in both the clean and dirty sections. Within the laid back groove throughout, the intensity should come across as being ramped up and ramped down, but never should it lose the sense of a piece that kind of grows and shrinks within the same sort of meandering, laid back vibe. That's the intention in the presentation and the playing anyway. Whether or not the intention rubs people the right or wrong way, well, that's another story :).

I'll listen for that pop too. See if I can get rid of it.

Thanks so much man. Great food for thought.
 
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