Multipressor

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AlecBeretz

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So yesterday i was messing around with a software multipressor. I mixed some guitars, a bass, and a simulated drum beat, and slapped on a gentile multipressor, and it sounded freakin awesome. near radio quality.... in garage band. i was stoked. although, the whole bit was like 30 seconds of loud punk stuff. I was just experimenting

i turned off my mastering settings and went to record some vocals. after i gave them a basic EQ and its own light compression, i turned on my mastering plug ins again. Suddenly the sound was warped every time the the vocals played. I know thats an issue with multipressors manipulating various eq's, and when the eq of the vocals appeared, the compressor compensated to maintain the applied settings.

How do i avoid this?

Also, has anyone ever mastered all the music, then done vocals over it with its own mastering chain so it still fits with the song? i feel like that would be easier since vocals are less predictable than the instruments and the compressors and limiters would work smoothly.
 
(This seems to be where the word "mastering" starts to get really warped...)

(A) I'd avoid the use of maul-the-band compression wherever possible. Sure, it sounds all "hyped" and "exciting" but (1) find out if it actually sounds better (it usually doesn't) and (2) if for some reason it actually shows improvement, find out why. Apply that "why" to the elements in the mix that need it.

(B) Smashing music beds isn't "mastering" -- Mastering is the creation of the production master (from which all like-copies will be made, etc., etc.). If you're dynamically altering a music bed and then trying to put vocals over it you're certainly going to run into all sorts of troubles.

That said - I know it's a popular thing to do in the HH/Rap genre.

THAT said - It really explains why they have so much trouble getting their vocals to sit right with the mix.
 
have you tried mixing down the backing then opening a new project import the mixed down backing then record the vocal on a new track. (ie bouncing down)
this will free up cpu usage and might get rid of the issue you have . just my two pence
 
i see editing the master track as a whole part of mastering. thats why i posted here.

and yeah kip4 thats what i figured i could try. but idk i like the idea of just doing what the multipressor is doing with the individual instruments so i get a similar effect and more precise product.
 
Oh man.....this is all so wrong on so many levels.....I don't even know where to begin.......so I won't.
 
look i'm not saying using a multiband compressor as a main mastering effect is good. He likes what happened when he applies the effect but cant get it to work once the vocals are on so i'm suggesting he print what he likes to tape and then tries the vocals over the top and remix again. Personally i wouldnt do this i find the over satturation just to annoying to listen to. I went through a phase of applying multibands on most of my recorded track to fatten, hype them up but all it did was introduce more noise. i learnt and so will he. A multiband compressor as a mastering effect does not work. so dont get me wrong !!!
 
He could maul-the-band (literally) on a group and add vocals on another. At least he'd be working in the context of the mix...

The problem he's having (and will continue to have) is that he's making overall dynamic judgments on an unfinished mix - - and then trying to finish it later.

Totally different thing than working on a finished mix and then pulling the vox to make an instrumental version. It works with deconstruction -- It doesn't work on assembly.
 
i've decided to bail on it entirely and put all the distorted guitar tracks on its own bus and putting the multipressor on that. fixed my problem cause thats where it really needed the effect. the vocals don't mess with it and it doesn't add all the noisiness to the mix. it made the drums sound thin and poopy anyway.

as for the complete lack of proper structure, i've tried to teach myself all this stuff without any proper instruction. i need to like, completely rewrite everything i know. hence why i joined homerecording.com and have been posting like mad hell over the last week or so. i need like, a tutor.
 
AlecBeretz said:
So yesterday i was messing around with a software multipressor. I mixed some guitars, a bass, and a simulated drum beat, and slapped on a gentile multipressor, and it sounded freakin awesome. near radio quality.... in garage band. i was stoked. although, the whole bit was like 30 seconds of loud punk stuff. I was just experimenting

i turned off my mastering settings and went to record some vocals. after i gave them a basic EQ and its own light compression, i turned on my mastering plug ins again. Suddenly the sound was warped every time the the vocals played. I know thats an issue with multipressors manipulating various eq's, and when the eq of the vocals appeared, the compressor compensated to maintain the applied settings.
Click to expand...

Dude, it sounds like you're just slapping on processing as a matter of course in the hopes that it will be the silver bullet that magically makes everything sound better. You most likely just made it sound louder, which has time and time again been proven as being perceived as better. Louder is not better. This is a function of the human ear/brain and can only be overcome by subjective listening at equal perceived loudness. All you're doing is tricking yourself.

NOTHING IN AUDIO SHOULD EVER BE DONE AS A MATTER OF COURSE.

AlecBeretz said:
How do i avoid this?
Click to expand...

You record properly with good tonal balance that is consistent with the vision of the project. You then mix it properly in line with the vision of the final product. It's methodical and reciprocal. Everything affects everything.

THERE IS NO MAGIC ETHEREAL SECRET TO MAKING A RECORDING OR MIX BETTER.

It's not a multiband compressor. It's not analog summing. It's not a fancy plugin. It's quite simply the ability to discern the difference between what will benefit a recording and what will not. It is the ability to subjectively listen and make DECISIONS that will improve or enhance what you already have or where you are going. And that, my friend, boils down to your ears, their training and your experience.

THERE ARE NO SHORTCUTS.

AlecBeretz said:
Also, has anyone ever mastered all the music, then done vocals over it with its own mastering chain so it still fits with the song? i feel like that would be easier since vocals are less predictable than the instruments and the compressors and limiters would work smoothly.
Click to expand...

No. Massive Master already pointed out why. This is not the secret either.

Cheers :)
 
good to know. i'll keep practicing. thanks guys!

yeah the compressor did make it louder, plus change the EQ.
 
Multiband compressors have their place in music production. You just have to know how and where to use it :D
 
I went through a comp phase just like I went through a reverb phase. I didn't go through a multiband EQ phase though - too complex & too much effort for my brain & ears.
I've been back to older recordings and removed reverb and compression and dealt with the tracks in ternms of fader automation, levels and the occasional touch of reverb with good results. that's the BIG benefit of DAW recording - I have heaps of tapes with reverb printed on whilst recording & I dearly wish I could rescue them but that's recording: play, listen, read & learn.
As for tutors - well you're in the right place. BUT you need to actually suss out people for their experience and helpfulness & pay attention to those rather than the ones that inadvertantly or otherwise stroke your ego by agreeing with you.
You're posting all over but probably should be spending more time reading & listening. I know it's hard not to get overexcited by things that sound cool 1st off (sonic maximiser was my 1st hurdle) & getting other people to listen/read is great. Just take it a little easier.
 
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