Multiple Outputs for DXi Instruments

[grweldon]

I asked this question on the Cakewalk users forum as well...I hope y'all don't mind. BTW, this question refers to Home Studio 4XL, but probably is the same as full blown Sonar...eh?

When inserting a DXi synth, what is the purpose of checking the "all synth outputs" box? When I do so, I get 4 audio output tracks (using Ederol VSC) but only one MIDI input track. Why would somebody want to do this? I am relatively inexperienced, but I usually use a DXi synth for each instrument that I want to use each with only 1 output track. This way, I can sequence all the MIDI instruments (Drums, for example) and each will have their own input and output track and I can adjust volume levels for each drum and I don't have any output number restrictions. I've done this successfully with 8 different Ederol VSCs so far and will probably use more.

I'm sure there is a reason and a useful purpose for using multiple audio outputs on one DXi synth and I'm counting on all you experienced users to help me out. I'm sure I'm missing something. I can't even get any of the extra outputs to work. It doesn't seem to matter what input I use....

Thanks...
Glen

 

[dachay2tnr]

That's actually a good question. I can see having multiple midi tracks feeding one DXi audio track, since you can separate them using separate midi channels. But I'm not sure why Sonar gives you one midi to muultiple DXi's.

It's also interesting that the Edirol gives you four DXi tracks, while the default for Kompakt gave eight, and the default for Live Synth Pro gave only one.

Like you, I tend to also use a one to one relationship (Midi to DXi) - but primarily because I feel it gives me more control over each instrument. For ex., I can put a volume envelope or effect on one instrument that I may not want on the others. I'm sure it uses more horsepower that way though.

Let's see what the rest have to say.

 

[grweldon]

I also use separate volume envelopes on the tracks as you stated. User "Daveny5" on the Cakewalk Home Studio fourm posted this reply to my question....

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Unless you have a soundcard with multiple outputs, you don't need to use a different instance of the Edirol VSC for each instrument. That's just putting an unnecessary load on your CPU. All you need to do is create one instance of the Edirol VSC and assign each different track/instrument to a different channel, for example,
Bass - Channnel 2
Guitar - Channel 3
Piano - Channel 5
Synth - Channel 6
Drums - Channel 10
etc...

If you need more than 16 instruments, then you can add a second Edirol VSC to the synth rack.

As to the "All Synth Outputs" option, according to the Help section:

"All Synth Outputs (Audio)--if you check this option, new audio tracks appear for each output that the synth you chose has. Each of the new tracks uses a different one of the synth's outputs as an audio input."

This is for use with multi-port DXi plug-ins. From Help:

"A multi-port DXi allows you the option of using a different audio track for every output that the DXi has. This allows you to use different plug-in effects for each sound (or in some cases, group of sounds) that a DXi produces. For example, if a DXi can produce 16 sounds at the same time, and has 4 outputs, you can send any of the 16 sounds out through any of 4 different outputs, giving you a choice of 4 different plug-in configurations for that DXi. You would use 4 different audio tracks: one for each output. If a DXi can produce 8 sounds at the same time, and has 8 outputs, you could use 8 audio tracks and 8 plug-in configurations. If you need more plug-in configurations or just more sounds, you can insert more copies of the same DXi, using new audio tracks for all of the new copy's outputs. You can also send all the MIDI tracks out the same output and audio track if you don't need separate plug-ins for each sound, or just want to use the DXi's internal effects.

The Insert DXi Synth Options dialog gives you the option of automatically creating a separate audio track for each output that the DXi has, or creating just one audio track for Output 1 of that particular DXi. Each new copy (also called an instance) of a DXi is considered to be a separate instrument, and appears in a separate row in the Synth Rack view, with a number after its name representing which copy it is. "

Its really only useful if you have a soundcard with multiple outputs.


_____________________________

Dave

Dave's Cakewalk FAQ

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Personally, I don't think Dave makes his point very clearly, but then again, he mostly quotes from the help file. I certainly appreciate his time for answering. I do actually have a multiple output soundcard, but I don't really see the need for it. So far I have been mixing in the box since the output I desire is a CD. Doesn't make sense necessarily to route my outputs to an analog mixer then back into the box for the final mix.

Glen

 

[DavidK]

I do actually have a multiple output soundcard, but I don't really see the need for it. So far I have been mixing in the box since the output I desire is a CD. Doesn't make sense necessarily to route my outputs to an analog mixer then back into the box for the final mix.

I think you pretty much answered your question. You probably dont need it, I dont either at this point but I can think of a lot of reasons to have it. Using something like a Roland Vari-Phrase, monitoring options, convenience, etc.

Slightly off topic:

When I use soft-synths I set em up, add reverb and whatnot, and export them as .wav files. I then re-import them ( or import them to the actual final version, I am doing thick stuff). For my way of working this is invaluable because my computer will explode if I dont, especially one cpu-hog softsynth.
Without a softsynth running I can easily get 30 tracks, maybe more.

 

[dachay2tnr]

Slightly off topic:

When I use soft-synths I set em up, add reverb and whatnot, and export them as .wav files. I then re-import them ( or import them to the actual final version, I am doing thick stuff). For my way of working this is invaluable because my computer will explode if I dont, especially one cpu-hog softsynth.
Without a softsynth running I can easily get 30 tracks, maybe more.

David - this probably makes sense if you need to recapture CPU power. However, you lose the ability to do additional tweaks.

I prefer to keep them as DXi's, cause it always seems as I get further into the mix, I need to go back and adjust something - more reverb, less velocity, different eq, etc. Of course, I haven't hit the wall yet with CPU resources. When I do, exporting and archiving would make sense.

I don't have Sonar 5, so I imagine this is what the "freeze" function is all about. However, so far I haven't seen very good feedback on this function.

Unless you have a soundcard with multiple outputs, you don't need to use a different instance of the Edirol VSC for each instrument. That's just putting an unnecessary load on your CPU. All you need to do is create one instance of the Edirol VSC and assign each different track/instrument to a different channel, for example,
Bass - Channnel 2
Guitar - Channel 3
Piano - Channel 5
Synth - Channel 6
Drums - Channel 10
etc...

This is exactly what I was saying above about multiple midi tracks feeding a single DXi. That makes some sense to me, and, in fact, I have used this approach in certain instances.

I still can't come up with a good use for a single midi track feeding multiple DXi's.

 

[DavidK]

David - this probably makes sense if you need to recapture CPU power. However, you lose the ability to do additional tweaks.

I prefer to keep them as DXi's, cause it always seems as I get further into the mix, I need to go back and adjust something - more reverb, less velocity, different eq, etc. Of course, I haven't hit the wall yet with CPU resources. When I do, exporting and archiving would make sense.

.

Yes, for me its all about cpu with my modest sams club computer and 512mb Ram. I of course keep the orignal midi track, I just turn of the DXI. If an additional tweak is needed I can always do it again.

I still can't come up with a good use for a single midi track feeding multiple DXi's.

One might be convenience and speed. I never really diid much with this stuff, about 4 months ago I bought a complete new setup and have spent a LOT of time learning. I am finding that speed and convenience are crucial for me as a composer.

In studios for work like jingles, this stuff has to be done fast, on the spot. If you are used to a combiation of 3 dxi's to get a string sound, one single midi track feeding 3 dxis saves a lot of time. I guess its similiar to templates: I never understood what they do, now I do because I am doing orchestra stuff.