Muffled sound

[lukewarm]

Hi

I have read through 100's of posts and it feels like i have tried 100's of things all of which make a difference but i can't figure out where i should focus

I am a very amateur guitar player and for my own amusement like playing around with recording, but i can't seem to get a crisp sound for the guitars. I have detailed my setup below but in short i have tried:
1. Mic placement
2. EQ
3. Compression
I can hear a difference with each but to my ear it still sounds muffled, is there anywhere you all think i should focus rather than trying ever random thing i can find on google

My Setup
Guitar direct into amp to remove variables of pedals
Amp is an Orange Dual Dark 50 with bass turned down as i thought this would contribute to the muffled sound (as per something i found on google)
Cab is a 4 x 12 Orange
Mic Shure SM57 placed pretty much dead centre on bottom left speaker
Mic into Focusrite Scarlett Solo
Logic Pro X
EQ trimming the top and bottom end (read it on google)

This is the result (weird clapping at the beginning as it was helping me hear the crispness difference) - https://soundcloud.com/luke-harrigan-1/mark-my-words

Any suggestions welcome

 

[mjbphotos]

First, make sure you are getting a sound you like out of the amp itself - get down close to the speaker and listen, don't go by what it sounds like 5 feet away in teh room (unless you are going to put the mic 5 feet away). How far away from the speaker do you have the mic?
The soundclip does seem to be lacking some high end - what are you setting your low pass frequency at in the EQ?

 

[lukewarm]

Hi, 100% agree, it the high end that seems to be missing on the recording but is present when though the amp itself. i did just that to try and get the mic placement but i will do it again. I did it with ear plugs in so i could leave the amp cranked in case the volume was having an impact. My EQ i copied off the internet (my understanding is minimal at best around eq) i have pasted an image of my settings

 

[andrushkiwt]

Without even hearing it, the top end seems to be cut off much too soon. For the most part, in general, electric guitars can go up to around 7khz or more before it's time to chop off the top. Yours is already rolling after 2khz, and very much so at 4-5khz. I'd dial that back first and see how it sounds.

 

[RAMI]

My EQ i copied off the internet

My advice is stop doing that. Forget the internet, the internet doesn't know how your set up sounds. The internet isn't in your room or in front of your amp. Even if it was, that internet article that you're copying from might have been written by a complete idiot. Believe me, anyone one can write an internet article. It doesn't make them knowledgeable. We've had our fair share of morons that write "How to" blogs passing through here, and 99% of them get exposed as total idiots that have no idea what they're talking about. Use your own ears.

Turn off the EQ. How does it sound? Too much treble? Play around with your EQ and see if it improves it. Too much bass? Same thing. Play around with mic placement, too.

I'm guessing that you're charging yourself $0 per hour for studio time, right? So, use that free time to experiment and figure things out for yourself. There's no rush. It will help you in the long run. Forget the internet.

 

[andrushkiwt]

Forget the internet.

My $0.02 on this is ... just take it all w/ a grain of salt and don't trust anything word for word. If you wish, and you trust the source, then use it as a starting point or something to point you in some direction. But don't take any settings literally. Those will always, always, always be specific to your particular situation.

When I first started out, I would hear "EQ until it sounds right". The problem for me was, I literally had no idea how it was supposed to sound to begin with. You could have EQ'd the guitars w/ a HP at 200hz and LP at 1khz, and I would think "ok, well, I mean, that's a guitar for sure." lol. If you're in that situation yourself, ever, and you literally have no idea about something, then:

1. be careful of where you're getting guidance. try to stick to reputable souces
2. don't trust anything that says "always" or "never"
3. take it all as a starting point and understand that "HP at 100hz" might be ok at 120hz or 80hz. Or that 4:1 might be ok at 2:1 or even 8:1. So, yes, use your ears. But if you started like me and had zero ears to begin with, then be careful with what you read and don't be afraid to ask questions. I'm still doing that here every day....

trust me, these guys know

 

[RAMI]

I wonder how all those awesome recordings happened before the internet. People must have just got lucky, I guess. Or maybe, they didn't expect everything to just "happen" within an hour of trying to make it happen. Maybe people paid their dues with hours, days, weeks, and months of experimenting, learning, adjusting, learning, experimenting, adjusting, learning. With a bunch of mistakes in between every one of those processes.

So, it doesn't sound good right away? So what? Figure it out. Try things. Did learning to play guitar just "happen"? Did writing a good song just "happen"?

If someone doesn't know "how it's supposed to sound to begin with" then how is reading an article and copying some stranger's information going to help? How does one know that this "information" isn't going to make things worse if one doesn't know how it's supposed to sound to begin with? If one doesn't know how something's supposed to sound to begin with, then they lack something that they'll get with time, which is called "experience".

I know, it's a shame that there isn't an "app" for everything. But at least that doesn't cheapen the effort put in by people that do put the time, sweat, and frustration it takes to get good at something. I wouldn't want it to be easy for everyone to instantly get good at everything. Or else, what's the point?

 

[RAMI]

Funny thing is, the best music I can think of happened BEFORE the internet.

I know computers existed before that, but let's say that Windows 95 was when everyone more or less started getting on the net. That's 1995. I'd say more better music happened before 1995 than after 1995. So, has the internet really helped anything? I guess, but people were making great recordings way before that. The difference is, it was easier to separate the pretenders from the contenders before.

 

[andrushkiwt]

there's truth to that, for sure. But, to be philosophical I suppose, what's the point of guitar teachers? Why see them at all? We could just fumble around without any guidance, right?

We trust that the guitar teachers will set us on a right path...to give us fundamentals that might otherwise take 30 years to figure out. I think sources on mixing should be looked at in the same light.... your guitar teacher isn't playing it for you, just helping out here and there, and any articles or even help from this forum are the same....just a voice saying, "try this" or "work on that". That's how I see it anyway. I don't have 20 years now to learn how to mix my music...although my guitar teacher was abandoned by the time I was 11, after one year. The rest I figured out on my own. But a little guidance and push is ok by me. it's when specific settings are being copied because someone said so that's a problem. Then you aren't learning anything.

 

[RAMI]

I taught myself how to play the guitar, which was a huge mistake because I couldn't play, which made me a shitty teacher. I would have never hired myself if I was me.

 

[RFR]

I wonder how all those awesome recordings happened before the internet. People must have just got lucky, I guess. Or maybe, they didn't expect everything to just "happen" within an hour of trying to make it happen. Maybe people paid their dues with hours, days, weeks, and months of experimenting, learning, adjusting, learning, experimenting, adjusting, learning. With a bunch of mistakes in between every one of those processes.

So, it doesn't sound good right away? So what? Figure it out. Try things. Did learning to play guitar just "happen"? Did writing a good song just "happen"?

If someone doesn't know "how it's supposed to sound to begin with" then how is reading an article and copying some stranger's information going to help? How does one know that this "information" isn't going to make things worse if one doesn't know how it's supposed to sound to begin with? If one doesn't know how something's supposed to sound to begin with, then they lack something that they'll get with time, which is called "experience".

I know, it's a shame that there isn't an "app" for everything. But at least that doesn't cheapen the effort put in by people that do put the time, sweat, and frustration it takes to get good at something. I wouldn't want it to be easy for everyone to instantly get good at everything. Or else, what's the point?

Bingo! We have a winner!

 

[miroslav]

The difference is, it was easier to separate the pretenders from the contenders before.

I think it's just as easy today...only problem is that there are now WAY more pretenders.

I taught myself how to play the guitar, which was a huge mistake because I couldn't play, which made me a shitty teacher. I would have never hired myself if I was me.

Notice how the internet removes that wisdom for so many...and when they spend a bit of time on audio forums asking questions, they suddenly become experts on everything audio and then they start "teaching" everyone else.

 

[RAMI]

I think it's just as easy today...only problem is that there are now WAY more pretenders.

I don't know. I don't totally disagree with you, but I do think it's easier to "fake" anything these days. I'm not talking about fake drums and amp sims (though, that too). I mean, now you can almost literally record a guitar solo one note at a time. You can take your first chorus and copy it into your 2nd and 3rd chorus. I mean just auto-tune alone means a lot of people can sing on pitch even if they can't. And someone that learns his software WILL be able to fool you, like it or not. It is easier to "fool" people these days.

 

[andrushkiwt]

...and when they spend a bit of time on audio forums asking questions, they suddenly become experts on everything audio and then they start "teaching" everyone else.

or kinda like those who have been doing it forever but still can't put together a good mix and/or song? yeah, i know some here like that.

 

[RFR]

I had a great teacher in my craft and chosen proffession.

I'd stand nearby and watch what he did.
Not too close or I'd get yelled at.

When I asked how he did something, he'd just tell me....."you're a smart guy, YOU figure it out!"

That was my training.

 

[RAMI]

or kinda like those who have been doing it forever but still can't put together a good mix and/or song? yeah, i know some here like that.

I don't know if that was directed at someone in this thread or not.... But it is true.

There are people here who obviously "know" stuff on a technical level and are way out of my league when it comes to knowledge. Because of that, when they post something, I expect it to be superior. I'm often bamboozled at how BAD these recordings are, from people that sound like they should be producing pro level recordings. I've been disappointed and un-pleasantly surprised many times by people I expected a lot more from.

^^^THAT was not directed at anyone in particular. I actually wouldn't be able to name who this has happened with, but it has happened on more than one occasion.

 

[miroslav]

I don't know. I don't totally disagree with you, but I do think it's easier to "fake" anything these days. I'm not talking about fake drums and amp sims (though, that too). I mean, now you can almost literally record a guitar solo one note at a time. You can take your first chorus and copy it into your 2nd and 3rd chorus. I mean just auto-tune alone means a lot of people can sing on pitch even if they can't. And someone that learns his software WILL be able to fool you, like it or not. It is easier to "fool" people these days.

Yes...in that regard, you're probably right.
Not to get into any analog VS digital things (I use both)...but something like tracking to tape certainly takes away that ability to record a solo one note at a time, etc...well it would certainly be crazy tedious for anyone to try!
I personally don't track to tape for that reason...I just like the whole tape vibe thing...but certainly back in the day, the tape tracking would have made it harder for the pretenders to slip by...plus you had the whole record company machine.
The machine didn't always guarantee great stuff stylistically...but certainly there were enough audio/music biz people involved that helped weed out the true pretenders.

 

[lukewarm]

All good advice and don't get me wrong my search of the Internet was more for a "why does it not sound like I think it should" that a ready to go answer. I spent two weeks every night on mic placement and reading up on setting up the eq properly but I couldn't get it to sound like I "thought" it should.

Any ways I have been playing around based on much of the above advice and I started by simply turning everything off and I mean everything, all Apple presets and the rest and I noticed I got some of the highs back so I have fiddled more and changed the eq I was using and the results are better much better but not quite perfect. So now I think it's about a bit more mic moving and then some more eq playing then tomorrow I will post it again to see if I am growing num or it is improving. Thanks

 

[RAMI]

That's the way to do it, buddy.

A few of us, also known as....I.....went on a bit of a rant. But it wasn't really addressed at you. These conversations always tend to get general and a little off topic at a certain point.

 

[miroslav]

I spent two weeks every night on mic placement and reading up on setting up the eq properly but I couldn't get it to sound like I "thought" it should.

Yeah...there's always going to be that trail & error process no matter how much you read or listen to others.

I mean it's good to do some research first, everyone should before they start putting up mics and hitting REC.
Then do some hands-on experimentation with what you've read/heard.
Of course...getting it to how you "thought" it should sound, is usually a process of discovery no matter what...unless of course you just want your stuff to sound exactly like someone else, and then you copy what they did and how they did it if the info is available...but IMHO, doing that only gets you "something", not everything.
IOW...until you *know* what/why shit happens, just copying rarely explains it.

There's too many folks who want someone else to just give them the "numbers"...and they have little interest in actually learning and knowing.
Sounds like you are not one of those.