More on firestops

[Michael Jones]

My inspector said I had to have fire stops at the 10' level between all adjacent double walls.
Here's a few pics:

This is looking straight up between the drum room and the live room.

 

[Michael Jones]

Funky huh?

Here's a pic of the CR ceiling.

 

[Michael Jones]

Another one:

 

[Michael Jones]

K. one more:
Standing at the kitchen door, looking towards the piano area and the drum room.

 

[Michael Jones]

I am sick and tired of looking at that framing!
I'm ordering insulation on monday!

 

[CoolCat]

go man go

go man go

you can do it...you can do it all night long.....
(from the Waterboy movie..hee,he)

energy never disappers it just turns into fiberglass

looks great,

 

[frederic]

Its looking good still Michael.

BTW, those "firestops" won't work, but it made your inspector happy. Isn't it nice how they waste your time and money?

 

[Michael Jones]

Huh?

How come they wont work?
They're suposed to keep a fire, that starts between the walls, from spreading into the attic. I think its dumb, but ya gotta do what ya gotta do.

 

[frederic]

Huh?

How come they wont work?
They're suposed to keep a fire, that starts between the walls, from spreading into the attic. I think its dumb, but ya gotta do what ya gotta do.

Before I explain this, let me ask what the fire plates are made out of. Looks like half inch or 5/8" gypsum board, is that correct?

 

[casenpoint]

You need firecaulking at that seam. Or have you already done that? And this is just an earlier photo hmmm..... All gaps and seams must have firecaulking in order for it to work.

What's wrong with that Frederic? Did the inspector and Michael overlook something.

Casenpoint

 

[Michael Jones]

Yes. All the seams still need to be caulked.
I'll do 'em all at once when I finish the stops.

It's 5/8" fire rated sheet rock. Its supposed to provide a one hour fire break.

 

[SHEPPARDB.]

Mike,I really hate it that you have to couple those walls,especially
after you designed them not to do that.
I would suggest that you buy your firestop products from Nelson.
I deal with them a lot with my job.The cool thing about them is that if you buy their products,you get a team of firestop engin-
eers at your disposal.
Your inspector may not understand the unique nature of studio
construction.Code in most states has a clause which allows a
qualified engineer to submit an alternate solution to a problem.
The alternate solution must still be approved by code officials,but
that is not usually a problem here.

 

[Michael Jones]

I hate having to do that too.

The idea is to cut a 1/4" gap down the middle, and fill that with fire proof caulk.
That will de-couple the walls and satisfy the inspector.

 

[frederic]

Yes. All the seams still need to be caulked.
I'll do 'em all at once when I finish the stops.

It's 5/8" fire rated sheet rock. Its supposed to provide a one hour fire break.

Yep, and it will provide that in a lab.

Assuming you have a serious fire, and not a cigarette butt tossed in there smoldering...

Because the rooms aren't tied together, you have a lot of air between the walls and that air will be sucked down across the floor towards the fire (through convection), thus providing a constant source of oxygen.

The flames of course will go up, and probably burn the structure between the two rooms, unless you sheet rocked those as well. Doesn't look like it from the pictures, but maybe I'm making an assumption here.

Anyway, if you screw/glue up the fire rated sheet rock at the headers, you're going to trap in the heat, which will do several things.

Whether the walls in the air gaps are burning or not, the moisture in the very long studs you used to get a nice ceiling height, will dry out very quickly and warp, torque, and possibly split. This will cause mechanical stress to the 5/8" fire rated sheet rock you have attached at the headers, thus fracturing it, and the heat will then blast it upwards right into the attic.

The heat that collects at the fire rated sheet rock will also cause the sheet rock itself to become more brittle, thus weakening it further, accelerating the splitting, tearing etc when it gets torqued when the heat warps the walls.

I'm not disagreeing with your fire inspector's requirement, he's merely following the law, but its an incomplete request. The fire rated headers by themselves don't buy you anything but compliance. They need to be supported properly, AND the air chambers between the rooms need to be sealed off as well, so a fire can't draw more oxygen.

I say this has a former, 7 year volunteer fire fighter, not as a hobbiest musician and a friend.

Fires can get so hot that asphault shingles can get goey and disintegrate. I've seen soldered copper piping pull apart from the heat, as the water inside steams away from the heated area an the solder melts. I've seen vinyl skylight frames melt and the glass comes in, oozing from the ceiling light some kind of alien science fiction movie.

I won't even get into car fires.

 

[SHEPPARDB.]

Yep, and it will provide that in a lab.

Assuming you have a serious fire, and not a cigarette butt tossed in there smoldering...

Because the rooms aren't tied together, you have a lot of air between the walls and that air will be sucked down across the floor towards the fire (through convection), thus providing a constant source of oxygen.

The flames of course will go up, and probably burn the structure between the two rooms, unless you sheet rocked those as well. Doesn't look like it from the pictures, but maybe I'm making an assumption here.

Anyway, if you screw/glue up the fire rated sheet rock at the headers, you're going to trap in the heat, which will do several things.

Whether the walls in the air gaps are burning or not, the moisture in the very long studs you used to get a nice ceiling height, will dry out very quickly and warp, torque, and possibly split. This will cause mechanical stress to the 5/8" fire rated sheet rock you have attached at the headers, thus fracturing it, and the heat will then blast it upwards right into the attic.

The heat that collects at the fire rated sheet rock will also cause the sheet rock itself to become more brittle, thus weakening it further, accelerating the splitting, tearing etc when it gets torqued when the heat warps the walls.

I'm not disagreeing with your fire inspector's requirement, he's merely following the law, but its an incomplete request. The fire rated headers by themselves don't buy you anything but compliance. They need to be supported properly, AND the air chambers between the rooms need to be sealed off as well, so a fire can't draw more oxygen.

I say this has a former, 7 year volunteer fire fighter, not as a hobbiest musician and a friend.

Fires can get so hot that asphault shingles can get goey and disintegrate. I've seen soldered copper piping pull apart from the heat, as the water inside steams away from the heated area an the solder melts. I've seen vinyl skylight frames melt and the glass comes in, oozing from the ceiling light some kind of alien science fiction movie.

I won't even get into car fires.

It's not like he is going to live in it!The main reasons for most of the firestop codes are to protect firefighters from backdrafts and
to keep occupants from dying of smoke inhalation.
It is my opinion that you good starve a fire of oxygen by sheet rocking the rated walls from floor to roof,and firestopping all penatrations.
Mike's inspector is a fucking ignoramous,as there is no such thing as "fire proof caulk".

 

[RICK FITZPATRICK]

As I stated in Michaels other thread, there is a conflict of interest at work here. And thats been a BIG question I've had for a VERY long time. How do you build a 2 leaf/two frame system that satisfys STC concerns, by having only ONE leaf on each frame, which leaves the interior air gap side of each wall completely open to fire, and still satisfy code. Code here stipulates that exterior walls have to be shiethed on BOTH faces, with fireblocking within the sandwich, which rules out using an exterior wall as part of a 2 wall/ 2 leaf system, at least in commercial buildings, which if I were to really try, would HAVE to pass compliance. That tells me 2 leaf/2 wall system would have to be built in ADDITION to the exterior wall, which would have to have the cavities vented to the outside, in order to not reduce the STC rating of the two leaf assembly. Thats EXPENSIVE. I've asked on other forums what other people have done in a commercial setting, and NO ONE wants to talk about it. I wonder why Ha! I bet they do stuff AFTER the fact. But who knows, I'm certainly no pro at that end of things.
fitZ

 

[frederic]

It's not like he is going to live in it!

No, but he may have clients over, thus exposed his insurance company to a legal liability.

The main reasons for most of the firestop codes are to protect firefighters from backdrafts and to keep occupants from dying of smoke inhalation.

Yes, this is true. However, because his rooms are isolated from one another with an air gap, open one door from either room where the fire is in between, whooooooosh smoke, flame and tremendous heat goes right through that just opened door.

Having the flames go up into the attic, allow the doors to be opened and the flame will roar upwards, rather than into the room you're standing in, opening the door.

It is my opinion that you good starve a fire of oxygen by sheet rocking the rated walls from floor to roof,and firestopping all penatrations.

Right again. Also, the air space between the rooms need to be sealed off so any fire that starts, burns out immediately due to lack of oxygen. The fire plates do not solve that, merely make the situation worse since the fire will draft oxygen from between all the walls that are spaced apart, but linked together from an air perspective.

Mike's inspector is a fucking ignoramous,as there is no such thing as "fire proof caulk". [/B]

Right, there is no such thing. But chaulk is required by building codes that require fire plates. Orange County in NY (upstate NY, close to NJ) has this same law, and I can tell you that many fire fighters would reach up with their picks and poke a hole to let the smoke into the attic.

This way the smoke isn't where they are, or near the people they are rescuing.