Mono confusion.

[grimtraveller]

I'd suggest that you mix with everything panned center, then when you have the mix all tight, just pan the instruments to where you want them visually or numerically.

I mix everything mono at first then I start to pan things visually.

keep the mix mono.

There are a couple of things I've just never understood when it comes to mixing and it's time for me to change that. Firstly, in another thread, some advice was given to the OP to mix to mono then to begin to pan. This is part of what confuses me ~ doesn't panning in effect mean a move to stereo and the undoing of that initial mono mix ? What would be the benefit of a mono mix if it's going to be undone and become a stereo one ? Or are my definitions wrong here ? If everything is panned centre, is that actually mono or is that stereo (with everything just panned centre !) ?
The other thing that confuses me is this thing of sometimes cancelled signals if someone happens to play a stereo mix on a mono machine {presuming I understand mono !}. How and why does that happen and how can this be avoided ?

 

[SouthSIDE Glen]

The recommendation in that thread was because of his hearing problems in his left ear. However,some folks like mixing in "mono" first anyway. More on that in a minute...

Technically speaking, as long as one is listening to a two-speaker (L&R) setup with two ears (L&R), they are listening to a stereophonic playback. A center-panned signal on such a setup is actually centered by sending equal volumes of that signal through both speakers, regardless of whether the playback *track* is a mono or stereo track. In order to have any stereophonic panning at all, one mush have two speakers with the ability to "tell" how much of any given sound is sent to each speaker; equal amounts to both speakers makes things sound as if they are coming from the center. Twice ans much L as R will make it sound like it's coming from halfway between the center and the left speaker, etc.

The true difference between mono and stereo lies either in the recorded track(s) themselves or in the numberr of channels in the playback hardware. If the track is a stereo track, it will contain two different "streams" of sound that the player will know represent the left and right channels on a stereophonic playback system. If they contain the identical information, it will sound just like a mono track played down the middle (and will, in effect, be a waste of bandwidth because there's no need for it to be in stereo.) If it's a mono track, it will contain just the one stream of info. Either way, the relative volume of what comes out of each side is controlled by the pan control (though some older DAWs only provide pan volume on mono tracks.)

When the playback system itself is mono - i.e. it does not provide two separate channels or speakers of playback, it simply takes any stereo signal and combines it into one mono channel for playback. This can cause some unintended waveform cancellations when you have a stereo signal where many of the wave crests in one channel coincide in time with many of the wave troughs in the other channel. These coincidences won't usually sound as bad when played back on discrete channels on spearate speakers, but when they are combined together into what is essentially a single mono waveform, they turn from discrete coincidences to concrete cancellations.

This is why some folks like mixing in mono first, even if their ears are OK; it helps identify potential phase issues in a stereo signal, and also if they will really cause problems when played back on a clock radio or other mono-only system.

This is one of those subjects that is really simple once one has a handle on it, but for some reason doesn't sound simple when you try to explain it to someone else . If you're still confused, don't feel bad; as more follow-up questions.

G.

 

[bouldersoundguy]

Hearing your mix in mono is revealing about the phase relationships of the various sources. Most sources won't have enough in common with each other to interact in a noticeable way, but those with a lot of common information, e.g. multiple drum mics, can interact audibly. If two mics that are interacting are panned apart you don't hear the problem, and it's never a problem as long as the playback is stereo. But if it goes through anything that alters the stereo separation it can become audible. That's why it's good to check the mono compatibility regularly.

Starting a mix in mono helps you focus on the level and tonal balance of the various sounds without the advantage of spatial separation. If you get everything working together in mono then panning is just icing on the cake rather than a corrective measure for a cluttered mix.

Sometimes when I check the mono I turn off one speaker.

 

[LeeRosario]

Well there's a philosophy that mixing in mono is the absolute most stripped down way of starting a mix. You get the instruments to work as best you can within that very confined space. "It's how they did things back in the day, so it's only natural to start from a historical standpoint" is what they always told me.

Personally I agree with all this...especially considering all the variables that are working against you when you finally get down to the mix process.

In essence, the stereo mix is the sum of two speakers which work together to make a whole. We have to assume that no two speakers work absolutely perfect together in any given room. If the imaging is off because of speaker design, placement, human factors or bad room design, you're fighting that on a stereo front. Because of all that, a lot of engineers tend to start a mix on a mono speaker they are familiar with. There's virtually no other speaker to add to it, so you've just about eliminated any false imaging/phasing issues that can arise from a stereo setup. You've really reduced the mixing process down to one speaker's frequency response and voicing.

Another point is that mixing in mono can give a great idea of how a vocals compete in a mix and how things feel together in that mix. If things don't feel right, it's pretty damn easy to tell in mono. Mono basically strips things down to a feeling, which is usually a rhythm section in any particular genre of music. You get alot more wiggle room in stereo. So generally speaking, the idea is to get your mixes to work and sound as best as possible in mono, and then once you pan it all out, it just seems to open up wonderfully. Just keep in mind this dosn't mean the mix will be finished by that point.

It tends to work on getting things to work together frequency wise, not stereo balance wise.

 

[grimtraveller]

This is all kind of interesting, thanks for explaining things as you have. Bit by bit, the fog may be lifting.
By the way, does anyone reading this ever listen generally to their music on mono playback machines or know anyone that does ? I don't think I have since the late 70s.

 

[SouthSIDE Glen]

Everytime I walk into a mall or a grocery store or a restaurant that is playing music out of the ceiling, I'm listening to a mono signal. But other that, no.

But then again I hardly ever listen to music at all anymore outside of the studio. The exceptions to that are the first great day of spring when I can roll down the windows on the car and crank up my favorite tunes for one day, a couple of days of Christmas jazz on Dec. 23-25 each year, and the occasional episode of Prairie Home Companion, American Routes or Sound Opinions if I happen to be in the car when they come on. Other than that, fergeddaboudit.

G.

 

[Farview]

Most club PA systems are run in mono. My daughters old Ford Escort stereo system sounded mono because of where the speakers were and how the interior was. Clock radios. Boom boxes are stereo, but the speakers are so close together that, unless you have your face right in the middle of the speakers, you are listening in mono....

 

[bouldersoundguy]

Some college radio is either on the AM band or on FM with a mono transmitter. For most of us on this forum those are more likely to play our stuff than one of the big corporate FM stations.

Muzak systems are probably mono as Glen said.

Many mp3 encoders do things to the stereo field which, while not technically mono, can reveal problems in a stereo mix.

 

[Bristol Posse]

Cell phone speakers generally only one of them so mono for ringtones and listening without earbuds.
Even on the very limited amount that have more than one speaker they are so close together 2 inches or less that it is mono

Malls, Stores, AM Radio, FM Radio when the signal is not strong, lap tops of you are more than about three feet away and not sitting directly in front of the speakers and so on all are

The list is almost endless where mono compatability is still important