Mixing vocals over an instrumental

[Dr.Reign]

Whats up,
Not sure if I should have just put this in the mixing area, but...

It seems that most of the instrumentals I find when trying to do vocal covers are very compressed.
I can't seem to mix my vocals without them seeming too quiet or on top of everything. Otherwise, it will sound thin.
The best I got was on a quieter instrumental but even then it stood out. It never just fits into the instrumental.

I typically compress my lead vocal tracks and add a little delay, then I record a second track with compression and reverb at a lower volume. However, this does not always work...

All help is appreciated

 

[Armistice]

Whats up,
Not sure if I should have just put this in the mixing area, but...

It seems that most of the instrumentals I find when trying to do vocal covers are very compressed.

The level of compression will vary but it's because they've been recorded, mixed and mastered.

I can't seem to mix my vocals without them seeming too quiet or on top of everything. Otherwise, it will sound thin.

Yes, it will... such is life.

The best I got was on a quieter instrumental but even then it stood out. It never just fits into the instrumental.

No... you know why? Because you're trying to add something extra to something which is already finished. Oh, a fully baked cake. I need to add vanilla. It gets messy....

I typically compress my lead vocal tracks and add a little delay, then I record a second track with compression and reverb at a lower volume. However, this does not always work...
All help is appreciated

An "unmastered" stereo track as a starting point would be better, but I doubt you'll find one. Stem tracks better still but I doubt even more you'll find them and then you'd need to know how to mix them back together again... Learn to create your own backing tracks perhaps? Just a thought... Do you play any instruments? Know any musicians? You can do a lot with VSTis if it's that type of music...

Otherwise, keep doing what you're doing and do a shitload of volume automation (first) and some compression (second) on your vocal tracks and that'll be as good as it gets for you, perhaps. It'll do for YouTube... no-one will notice the sound because they'll be watching your awesome video...

Sorry to crush your dreams.. stay away from the steak knives for a while, OK..

Merry Christmas!

 

[Dr.Reign]

Thank you!
You have crushed my dreams, but have managed to make it amusing.
I do play Flute
sadly the genre I am singing does not use woodwinds

However, I will look into your advice and see what I can do

 

[Armistice]

Thank you!
You have crushed my dreams, but have managed to make it amusing.
I do play Flute
sadly the genre I am singing does not use woodwinds

However, I will look into your advice and see what I can do

Ah but if you are an actual musician then you can probably work with VSTis easily enough, if the genre you're trying to sing in is suited. If you were just a singer with no musical training this would probably be a step too far...

 

[TimN]

You don't say how you're getting the vocal in--what interface, software? Do you record dry, and then add the reverb/ compression (hopefully)?

 

[Bobbsy]

You'll never add vanilla properly to the cake (as per Armistice) but there are a few tricks to make it taste at least a bit better:

First, use EQ on the backing track to "cut a hole" for your vocals--you'll have to experiment with what suits your voice but using a GEQ to take frequencies in roughly the 200Hz to 1kHz range down by 4 or 5 dB will help your vocals sit in better. If you can hear the missing frequencies from the music, you've gone too far--subtlety is the key.

Second, compress your vocals in a best guess at how much compression is on the backing tracks to try and make them match.

Third, do the same with reverb--if there's any 'verb on the backing tracks, add similar to your voice.

Finally, don't be afraid to mix line by line (or even word by word or syllable by syllable) to make sure your voice is clear amongst the backing. Compression is a good starting point but the human ear and a fader or volume envelope is even better.

Nothing is as good as having all the original stems and mixing from scratch--but you can make performing to backing tracks sound okay.

Hell, all this vanilla. I wanted devils food cake!

 

[Dr.Reign]

You'll never add vanilla properly to the cake (as per Armistice) but there are a few tricks to make it taste at least a bit better:

First, use EQ on the backing track to "cut a hole" for your vocals--you'll have to experiment with what suits your voice but using a GEQ to take frequencies in roughly the 200Hz to 1kHz range down by 4 or 5 dB will help your vocals sit in better. If you can hear the missing frequencies from the music, you've gone too far--subtlety is the key.

Second, compress your vocals in a best guess at how much compression is on the backing tracks to try and make them match.

Third, do the same with reverb--if there's any 'verb on the backing tracks, add similar to your voice.

Finally, don't be afraid to mix line by line (or even word by word or syllable by syllable) to make sure your voice is clear amongst the backing. Compression is a good starting point but the human ear and a fader or volume envelope is even better.

Nothing is as good as having all the original stems and mixing from scratch--but you can make performing to backing tracks sound okay.

Hell, all this vanilla. I wanted devils food cake!

Thank you,
it seems to be working fairly well

 

[Dr.Reign]

You don't say how you're getting the vocal in--what interface, software? Do you record dry, and then add the reverb/ compression (hopefully)?

I have an Alesis multimix 4 (usb interface) with a behringer C1 plugged in
not the best but...
I have these going into reaper and I hardware eq from my interface
I record two vocal tracks and use delay on the lead through an aux track
and reverb on the other also using an aux track (this vocal track is at a lower volume around -6db)

I then have a separate aux track that adds compression to the vocal tracks


I apply EQ directly to the instrumental and usually some volume automation

 

[Bobbsy]

I'd strongly suggest you try recording dry and applying EQ and delay/reverb "In the Box", particularly with backing tracks. This'll give you much more flexibility in getting your vocals to "sit" better.

 

[Paschalis I.]

Whats up,
Not sure if I should have just put this in the mixing area, but...

It seems that most of the instrumentals I find when trying to do vocal covers are very compressed.
I can't seem to mix my vocals without them seeming too quiet or on top of everything. Otherwise, it will sound thin.
The best I got was on a quieter instrumental but even then it stood out. It never just fits into the instrumental.

I typically compress my lead vocal tracks and add a little delay, then I record a second track with compression and reverb at a lower volume. However, this does not always work...

All help is appreciated

When building the instruments always cut from 2Khz to 5Khz.
This is the zone where the vocals should dominate anyway, if there's any clash whatsoever.

By cutting I don't mean to go drastic (unless the instrument can handle it).
By doing this you will find yourself pushing less the vocals to be heard.

Also, compress the vocals a little more heavily if you feel they get lost in the mix and automate them back to give some life/dynamics to the different parts of the song.

 

[Bobbsy]

When building the instruments always cut from 2Khz to 5Khz.
This is the zone where the vocals should dominate anyway, if there's any clash whatsoever.

By cutting I don't mean to go drastic (unless the instrument can handle it).
By doing this you will find yourself pushing less the vocals to be heard.

Also, compress the vocals a little more heavily if you feel they get lost in the mix and automate them back to give some life/dynamics to the different parts of the song.

The fundamental frequencies for the human voice tend to be about 100Hz to 1kHz for a male voice and about 250Hz to 3kHz for a female voice--and this is where all the intelligibility comes from. This is why old fashioned phone circuits tend to have a bandwidth from 2 or 3 hundred HZ up to 3kHz. Obviously the exact numbers vary from voice to voice, but cutting in the range you suggest is a bit high.

By cutting instrumentals in the 2-5kHz range you're having a much bigger effect on many instruments without buying much more than extra presence on the voice. Indeed, by 5kHz, you're getting up into the sibilance range.

 

[Dr.Reign]

I'd strongly suggest you try recording dry and applying EQ and delay/reverb "In the Box", particularly with backing tracks. This'll give you much more flexibility in getting your vocals to "sit" better.

It's coming out better and is already a bit easier to mix
thanks!