mixing vocals on metal song

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EleosFever

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Every time I'm trying to mix vocals, finally it gets awful.. I can't get the vocals over distorted guitars.. I have to make all the instruments down.. but i know this is not the correct way.. i mean i finally make the vocals to +0db and the other instruments at -6db.. So i want to ask what effects you usually use to mix vocals? I use compressor, eq, reverb and a little echo.. I don't know if I'm using it in the right way.. But i can't mix int correctly.. Please do not start posting like: read this book, practice, you will never be able to mix vocals, stop mixing - start dancing, wahahaha..
 
There's three basic ways tracks step on each other. (And probably a bunch of less basic ways that I'm not thinking of right now.)

1. Volume -- you've discovered this and are currently having to turn guitars down too much to make room for the vox.

2. Stereo Field -- where do the two tracks sit in relation to each other? Both center? One left, one center? And so on...

3. EQ -- Are they both concentrated in the midranges? Is one low (a bass guitar) and the other high (a piccolo)?

It's almost always a combination of those three. Here's some real world consideration for vox and heavy guitars: they're probably occupying a lot of the same EQ range, stepping on top of each other in the midrange area.

EQ: The first thing I do is carve out space for each of 'em. Where's the main range of the vox? Cut the guitars some right there. Maybe there's some low frequencies on the vox that aren't really needed and are just making the vox muddy with the guitars. So cut that out of the vox. It's important to remember that each track might not sound as perfect as you think when you solo it--that doesn't matter! What matters is how they sound together. So if the guitars sound thinner when solo'd, or the vox sounds more midrangey when solo'd--but they now have room for each other and sound good together, that's what matters.

Next--stereo field. After adjusting EQ to make room, they might still be stepping on each other. That could be because they're in the same place (with vox, usually centered). I had this just last night on a track. Simple female vox with nothing but acoustic guitar. When they were both right down the middle, it was mud. I tracked the guitar part again, and sent one of 'em left, and one of 'em right--left the vocal right down the middle. Sounded much better. Didn't need hardly any EQ. So consider the placement of things like they're on a stage--give 'em their own space--especially if they're similar in tone.

Finally, Volume--even after doing the above, I still have to play with volume levels a lot of the time. Are you using some volume automation? If not, you might turn the guitars down a bit during vocal parts, but then they sound too quiet during instrumental breaks. My mixes often have fairly involved volume curves, bringing some instruments down to move the vox forward, then bringing those instruments back up when the vox drop out.

Oh yeah--it's never a bad thing to say to practice. I know you're looking for knowledge, but even knowledge has to be applied differently every time. Knowing how to do something is just part of it. Knowing when to do it does take practice. Hopefully I've given you some knowledge that you'll want to practice with.
 
"i mean i finally make the vocals to +0db and the other instruments at -6db.. "

levels on your master or on the single tracks?? In any case that is way too hot.....:eek:
 
WhiteStrat thanks for the information.

joeym i mean in single tracks.
 
Why don't you start mixing with your vocals first, and bring everything else in around them?

Best trick I've got for ensuring vocals stand out is to do the NY compression technique. One track of vocals with no effects. Slam a copy of that track with compression and bring it up behind the lead vocal track. Usually helps to make it cut through the rest of the music.

Seriously though, if you start with the vocals, its tough to not hear them in the mix.
 
joeym said:
"i mean i finally make the vocals to +0db and the other instruments at -6db.. "

levels on your master or on the single tracks?? In any case that is way too hot.....:eek:
Click to expand...

Agreed.
In 24 bit, it'll sound better if you track and mix at around -18. Better punch and clarity.
 
My 2 cents?

Whitestrat's advice is excellent!

I would say that Stereo Separation is a BIGGY (THE BIGGY) when getting clarity out of your mixes... listen carefully to the who, etc.!

Rule of thumb:
Lead vocal in the middle (center of stereo mix), then drums (recorded in stero on 2 tracks that can hard left and hard right). Bass, guitar, keyboards, etc, float about left and right half-way-ish (90 degrees or so)... not hard left or right. Leads/Solos, put in center (they are replacing the vocalist right?). That's general mixing advice.

Now.. the gearhead tech stuff!

Mute the vocal track.

Level instument tracks (except drums) so they hit in the -6db range but can peak up to about -4db

Level drum tracks to mix at -4db but can peak to -2db (remember they were full stereo tracks).

Apply a compressor to each track individually, and set the limiter on the compressor to be about -4db and compression times appropriate for that kind of instrument - which is another whole thread in itself lol).

Listen to the mix and balance stereo sound so it makes a great instrumental track.

Now un-mute the vocal, set the limiter on it so that it peaks at -2b max).
Adjust the level of the track as needed.

If there are backing vocals, now bring them in and put on left/right pans of about 45 degrees, set limiter for them around -3db.

Finally, apply a master limiter at -0.2db (just a hair under 0db).
That is a great way to obtain a nice clean mix with sane overall balance and levels.

It's not cheap, it takes a lot of compressor/limiters (or cpu power if you are using vst limiters) - but the mixes sparkle and shine!

Hope that helps!
 
StevenT that helped a lot! Thanks..

What about equalizer? i can't use it correctly..

what freqs do you cut and boost the most of the times?
(my voice is bassy..)

and what first? eq or comp?
 
I agree....your tracks are too hot. Bring everything down another 4 to 8db. Give yourself some headroom before you go and master.

Also, try panning the guitars (if you aren't already) L and R. start 100% and bring em in until they sit in the mix better. With the vox in the middle, it'll give a better stereo image.
 
Now i'm trying to mix my voice over an instrumental.

i have the instrumental and the accapella..

i'm trying to get my voice as close to the accapella..

but my vocals get burried under the instrumenta.. everytime.. and the accapella sounds like my voice.. i can't understand this..
 
EleosFever said:
Now i'm trying to mix my voice over an instrumental.

i have the instrumental and the accapella..

i'm trying to get my voice as close to the accapella..

but my vocals get burried under the instrumenta.. everytime.. and the accapella sounds like my voice.. i can't understand this..
Click to expand...

Back to Basics: try rolling off the low end. Start at 150k, and go from there. Usually cleans up the vox. Are you compressing it?
 
you meen 150hz?
yes i'm compressing the vocals..

after this which freqs must i boost?
 
EleosFever said:
you meen 150hz?
yes i'm compressing the vocals..

after this which freqs must i boost?
Click to expand...

That's what I mean, hz ya. Use a HPF.

You shouldn't have to boost anything. Taking away is much better than boosting. Try scooping a little high mids off the guitars.
 
EleosFever said:
StevenT that helped a lot! Thanks..

What about equalizer? i can't use it correctly..

what freqs do you cut and boost the most of the times?
(my voice is bassy..)

and what first? eq or comp?
Click to expand...

Glad that helped.
As to eq, I ALWAYS
1. Get best eq at time of recording

2. Adjust eq on a track by track basis only (my hardware and software setups are both based on classic british eq) - I NEVER use a "Master" graphics equalizer.

3. Frequencies that usually need to be rolled off "a little bit" are HIGH HIGH on vocal tracks, and HIGH HIGH on bass guitar (sounds more smooth).

4. Since I only equalize using the mixer eq, the compressor/eq war is a non-issue for me.

Again, the best time to worry about eq is at the time of recording it!
That is the best place to capture the depth of a voice, the pulse of a kick drum, or the shreek of a lead guitar!

Something else to keep in mind regarding comressor/limiters.
COMPRESS Instruments
LIMIT Vocals

If you plan on recording for some time to come, invest in the best compressor/limiters you can get your hands on.

I use Chandler Limited TG1 (http://www.chandlerlimited.com/products/tg1.php)

I first came across these (actually the 12413 versions) at EMI years ago and I was sold - they are all I use.

The good news also, they have a VST version and it is AWESOME!
EMI/Abbey Road is actually using these in there DAW's too!
See: http://www.chandlerlimited.com/products/plugin_tglimiterpack.php

It takes even the most uneven vocal and smooths and levels it to perfection and also controls any stray instruments with compression if I was sloppy in recording it, but also can really thump drums and bass!

Finally, since I don't know how you are recording, I will just add this - put your mic into a tube pre-amp prior to recording! Vocals stand out much better and more rich when tube pre-amped!
 
i mixed some metal vocals about a week ago...

www.myspace.com/ironkladaudio

it's the 1st track on there...vocals we high-passed at 200, lo-passed at 12k, the low growls had really no other EQ...the high-pitched vocals had a dip around 2k because dude's was voice was really scratchy

then i compressed them pretty hard with a fast attack

then the tracks got sent to a big but short reverb along with a delay that was set to have a simple doubling effect
 
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