mixing / processing drum tracks

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RedNucleus

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Hi - I've been reading threads on this interesting forum for a while, and couldn't resist registering / posting a question myself. I'm working on a HD home recording project (progressive rock/metal) and could use a few tips when it comes to processing individual drum tracks. I have separate physical tracks for :

-kick drum
-snare drum
-hi-hat
-ride cymbal
-stereo tom overheads
-stereo cymbal overheads

So, now I'm trying to process (FX) this to sound like a killer drum track. I'm trying to avoid long reverbs on snare and toms (which is always tempting when you want a 'big' sound) - I'd like the drum track to be punchy and "in-your-face", so powerful and impressive sounding, but without excessive reverb. I guess gated reverbs are the way to go, but what would roughly be good settings to start with, i.e. what to use on the different parts of the drumkit, and what are the pitfalls to avoid ? Any other tips or tricks to make the sound "fatter", other than EQ ? For example, should a snaredrum be processed in stereo ? I do like the dry sound of a good drumkit, and the basic tracks I have sound good, but in order to make the drums fit the production, I feel there's a lot of work that needs to be done in terms of processing. Any help / tips from people with experience in this field would be greatly appreciated - thanks !
 
"I'd like the drum track to be punchy and "in-your-face", so powerful and impressive sounding"

it helps to record it that way......

seriously maybe post a rough mix of what you have, a small clip of high quality mp3 (192kps).......
 
Your asking for a course in drum mixing :), and thats a bit to much for me to reply to.....

Why dont you try and read this article with audio samples.
It will give you ideas to start experimenting with.
http://24.61.136.253/index.html

To start you of, learn how to use compression and how to gate.
A small tip to start - gate and compress your BD, and see how your will get punched in.
Do this before you eat.........
Compress your snare with acurate use of the attack and see how the attack will change the impact of the strike on your snare....
This is a start.
Of course if you play wimpy.....

Good luck

Shailat
 
Red,

It all starts with the mics, pres, and positioning you use as well as the tuning of the drums and the way the drummer hits them....thats a lot of things you need to worry about before you get to the mixing stage....study the article at Shailats page, re - record the part if you have to, but by all means, post a mp3 clip......
 
Ehr, sorry this took me a while; I usually don't work with these dreadful mp3's but after downloading some encoding shareware I managed to rip a short 5 second file (with a drumfill, so you can hear the toms as well) at 128K. Too bad you can't upload bigger files, but maybe it gives an idea of the track I'm working on.
Thanks to anyone who responded so far. I'll be sure to check out the links as well - thanks heaps !
 

Attachments

two quick remarks about the mp3 file :
-on the original tracks, the kick sounds less 'boomy'
-there's less 'grit' in the sound
I suppose these are encoding artifacts, but the file gives a good idea of how the dry tracks sound.
You can hear some room ambience, I guess like someone pointed out, I should gate these tracks heavily in order to get a more 'compact' sound which can then be processed further ? Or should I be careful no to 'overdo it' and 'deaden' the sound ?
 
You have to ask yourself what kind of sound are you looking for.
Do you want a more live feeling? ambiance? a tight kit like Steely Dan? a Led Zep sound?
Gating will able you to process better eash part but will cause the kit to sound a bit sterile.
Focus on the BD and SD and for now leave the rest of the kit alon. Blend the Oh's in slowly after you get the BD and Snare sitting in well and after you place the toms in panned well.
This is a beggning

There are loads of snare sounds. Just take a drum moudle and listen to the 10's of options they give you. Listen to your favoritte artists and define the sound you want in your head. Then you will have an easier time.

It's like Gidge said....recording a drum kit is a project !
The mic choice..the kit itself ...the room...the positioning of mics.....the recording media.... a serious effort.

As for your mp3... I cant hear it at home using a normal monitoring system so I leave that to others....

I thought I might start a drum mixing clinic by letting people download a 8 track drum session that isnt processed and take them through it slowly as everybody tries at home on his system.
I have the tracks ready but I cant find the time... money...I don't have the ability to download others results with my modem.
But maybe if only a few poeple join in on this and they have the patiance to wait forever for me and doing it over the period of a year, I could consider pulling it off.......or not......
 
Shailat, I had a look at the url you posted and found some great info there. I'm not a complete newbie but that article puts things in perspective nicely, just like the other things you mentioned. Thanks for that... and if you would find the time to finish that project you mentioned, I sure hope you'll post the news here as well - it sounds great and I think a lot of people could benefit from it.
I hope some more people can give me a few hints or comment on the mp3 file...
 
so many views, so little replies... c'mon, even if it's to slag me off... have a listen and... spit it out ! :D
 
Red I know your probably not going to want to here this after you went through the trouble of posting that mp3....BUT:

It would be better if you posted an mp3 of the entire mix, and not just the drums.....That way it would be easier for people to say how to get the drums to sit in the mix better and how to go about attain that "punchier" in your face sound....Cuz, otherwise no one knows what the instruments sound like and hence can't make any recommendations on what to do to get the drums to cut through the rest of the instruments in the mix inorder to get that "bigger" sound......Everything in a mix is relative to the other instruments.....e'g.Your drums may sound great and "big" alone but not with the other instruments....


BTW, Other than that boomyness you've described and attributed to the mp3 encoding, the posted drums sound as if they are recorded fairly well....:)


-nave
 
Shailat,

Ive begged and begged someone to do something of that sort with a whole track, but just drums (THE hardest thing to record and mix RIGHT) would be great.....

id be willing to help out...what exactly kinda help would you need?.....
 
BTW, Shailit, I also think it is a very good idea.....The drum mixing clinic deal....I like it.......Go fo it!


-nave
 
Gidge said:
Shailat,

Ive begged and begged someone to do something of that sort with a whole track, but just drums (THE hardest thing to record and mix RIGHT) would be great.....

id be willing to help out...what exactly kinda help would you need?.....
Click to expand...

If its in a workshop style were everybody sends me their results,
That I find almost impossible to do considering the time and money and internet.

If I give some suggestions and everybody tries it at home and doesnt ask me to hear it or send me cd's and I send back stuff, then it might work. I'll need people to have loads patience as I am booked with work untill the summer. So I can't run this
as a sequence day to day but more 2 weeks to 2 weeks. Also I dont have a proper monitoring system at home and need to find the time in between wroking hours to actully work on it......

What I can do is upload a short groove of 8 seperate tracks like:
* BD
* SD
* Toms left
* Toms Right
* OH left
* OH right
* Hi hat
* Ambiance

All of them unprocessed as wav files (its worth the extra effort to have them as wav files.). Each file would be around 2.5MB so all together it would amount to 20MB. So if you every day you download a file, by the end of the week you can get it all.
Then through email messages to all those that want to participate (limited to 5- 6 people or else I'll be answering 25 emails every 4 hours.....).

What would be even better would be if other members who could head such a clinic and jump in and take an additional 5-6 members, and lead them as if its his own clinic that way we could cover many members and take off some of the pressure. Or.......
if it isnt to much work, I could run this thing twice like a summer course and winter course :D

I make no promises !!

Shailat
 
OK for starters - by tonight I should have all the files up and they can be downloaded using a FTP program.

The first five that want to join in, will be givin a password to download them. The whole kit can be downloaded in a hour or so.

Then....you wait :)
 
You send me an email and I reply to yours with a address and password.
You go and download the files and ......wait.

Your #1 and I asume that Gidge is #2 so.... 3 more people who are interested.......

mwohl@inter.net.il
 
Thanks *everyone* for your feedback.
The next time that I want any of you folks review/listen to my stuff, I'll upload a file that isn't just drums... Makes sense.

(Shailat, I sent you a mail as well.)

Thx again !
 
This is some cool stuff, Shailat!

If I might add my 2 cents, I think the reason drums are so difficult to record and mix well is because it's the one instrument that is the most dependant on the skill of the musician.

If you do a lot of creative editing, pasting, panning, effects, etc., it is possible to make a guitar player sound a certain way: ie - big, aggressive, dirty, clean, etc. Creative cutting, pasting, and punch-ins can even make ME sound like a decent guitar player AND I SUCK! Ditto for the bass, although I'm actually pretty good at that to begin with. :)

It's a little trickier for vocalists, but again, there is the autotune, and you can use effects, doubling, etc.

For a drummer, just forget about it. It's a very difficult and time-consuming task making a drummer sound "a certain way" if they don't already sound that way. A lot of the skill a drummer possesses has nothing to do with his/her technical skill or timing. It has to do with the way they hit the snare, toms, etc. Certain players will hit the snare just hard enough and on the sweet spot of the drum head almost every hit. Each hit will be almost of equal volume, so you probably won't even need to use a compressor. They'll tune their kits and change their heads regularly, and they probably won't play on a crappy set.

In short, all you have to do is point mics at them and they will do the rest. I just can't stress this enough. So if you want a big, powerful drum sound, the most important thing is to work with a powerful sounding drummer -- usually a Phil Collins / John Bonham or David Grohl fan. A Jazz fan will not give you the drum sound you're seeking (big and powerful) no matter what you do. :)
 
I see the point you're trying to make and I agree with most of what you say, but, by the same token, I think it's realistic to say that producing a drum track is something you can go about in many ways, and I was trying to find out what tricks others use to give the SOUND a boost, not the playing. While they probably won't appear to be "jaw dropping to the average Phil Collins fan" , I'm quite satisfied with the tracks... DRY, that is. Don't get me wrong, I appreciate your insightful post but I'm just wondering if anyone can share some tips/tricks regarding processing for a compact yet big and in-your-face drum sound... types of reverb, parameters, other processing tools... not extensive step by step tutorials, just something in the vein of "I used this on that track / part of the kit and it worked great because..." ... y'know ? Maybe that would give me some ideas to get creative and try something cool that I haven't thought of myself... because I lack the years of experience a lot of you folks have :)
 
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