C
chadsxe
New member
drummerdude666 said:
Most "hardcore" bands have there guitars sounding pretty close to each other. Typically what seperates them in a mix is aggresive pans left and right.
Mixing post death hardcore metal.. as they define themselves...
Most "hardcore" bands have there guitars sounding pretty close to each other. Typically what seperates them in a mix is aggresive pans left and right.
drummerdude666
immature
Yeh, thanks, just so you know i'm not a newbie. Although i am 15 i work part time in 3 studios. So what i mean is any other ways of seperating the guitars? i'm thinking compression teachniques, i dont know.
I always record clean - i can always change my mind about the EQ, and also i have basicly no outboard gear. lol.
Also any good advice on recording bass, the bass i usually record with is a Erine ball 'bongo' bass. My bass guitarist has one which i borrow. I cant borrow it for this session. So im recording with a squire bass. I usually D.I. the bass as the bas amps i have give a huge amount of hiss. I've only recorded once with a squire bass and i had an awful sound out of it... what can i do to improve this? any advice?
thanks again for all your help
I always record clean - i can always change my mind about the EQ, and also i have basicly no outboard gear. lol.
Also any good advice on recording bass, the bass i usually record with is a Erine ball 'bongo' bass. My bass guitarist has one which i borrow. I cant borrow it for this session. So im recording with a squire bass. I usually D.I. the bass as the bas amps i have give a huge amount of hiss. I've only recorded once with a squire bass and i had an awful sound out of it... what can i do to improve this? any advice?
thanks again for all your help
J
JustaBassist
New member
Yea check out Unearth, As I lay Dying, From first to Last, Underoath. Those are the bands to check out, its a wide spread between the genre you are going to work with. I'm guess these guys will sound more like Unearth but listen for the double kick, cause the 'click' will be up front in the mix, if they have 2 guitarist, lead and rythm, listen how the each guitar has its own sound and vocals...if the singer screams add compression.
C
chadsxe
New member
drummerdude666 said:
I guess your going to have to tell us more detail about the band. What kind of music can you compare it two. Like I said if your talking about "True Hardcore" seperation is usually not an issue do to the fact that the guitars are suppose to be similar. If your talking about "new hardcore", i guess seperation comes more into play. Things like eq'ing and panning are the only ways to do it.
As far as the bass goes - your shit out of luck. Like the saying goes crap in crap out. I almost would recommend modulation for the bass.
J
JustaBassist
New member
For bass check out the Tech 21 sans amp bass driver DI pedal and or rack. They give the bass a whole new sound! When recording with the pedal model there may be some hiss depending on how you have the settings set, so make just mess with it until its soudns good
J
JustaBassist
New member
Sry for many posts!
From the looks of your pictures you have many amps lined up against the wall, are those yours or clients? If u can, try getting other amps in and like what everyone else are says...eqing, panning, compression and maybe try room micing and if the amp has a open back put a 421 back there along with the front, that will give the guitar sound a more rough grunge sound to work with.
drummerdude666 said:
From the looks of your pictures you have many amps lined up against the wall, are those yours or clients? If u can, try getting other amps in and like what everyone else are says...eqing, panning, compression and maybe try room micing and if the amp has a open back put a 421 back there along with the front, that will give the guitar sound a more rough grunge sound to work with.
mattamatta
New member
Recording is cool and all, but let's get back to the topic of Tony Danza
drummerdude666
immature
chadsxe - the band have been booked for 2 days in about a month. I've no idea how they sound, or if they're any good. I've heard one guitarist and he can shred like a mofo. But i wont find out what they sound like until the day, that why i always ask the genre of the band. So i get prepared before etc.
The amps are all mine - or they belong to band members im in band with so i can use them. There are 3 bass amps in my collection and they all hiss.
Bass problem im still very very stuck with. Does anybody have a magic plugin that make a bass sound rich and deep but still with plenty of attack? As that might help.....
...what do you mean they dont exist?
The amps are all mine - or they belong to band members im in band with so i can use them. There are 3 bass amps in my collection and they all hiss.
Bass problem im still very very stuck with. Does anybody have a magic plugin that make a bass sound rich and deep but still with plenty of attack? As that might help.....
...what do you mean they dont exist?
J
JustaBassist
New member
drummerdude666 said:Bass problem im still very very stuck with. Does anybody have a magic plugin that make a bass sound rich and deep but still with plenty of attack? As that might help.....
Yes, that one pedal I was talking about, the Tech 21 Sans Amp Bass Driver DI. I used it in the studios compared to the countryman and wow, the bass driver added a lot of depth to the bass. I usually have the level all the way up and use the 'blend' and 'drive' to control the sound.
drummerdude666
immature
looks stunning, unfortunatly out of my range for now. But thanks for your help. Any other alternatives?
But much much cheaper. The thing is i usual have the bongo bass so bass is usual really nice. Its a lot of money (im 15 remember) to spend for something that is usually ok, the money (in my eyes) would be better spent on better moniters/room acoustics etc.
But much much cheaper. The thing is i usual have the bongo bass so bass is usual really nice. Its a lot of money (im 15 remember) to spend for something that is usually ok, the money (in my eyes) would be better spent on better moniters/room acoustics etc.
E
elephex
New member
Death metal engineering, mixing, etc. Tips and Tricks
Ok, as a metal/thrash/whatever musician and engineer, heres a few tips.
If you want to get a good sound, its all about the amp and guitar (but you already know that)
If they have a 60w Marshall head, youre gonna be good to go. If it is a JCM series, good. if not, dont fret just yet.
A good idea for Death Metal, that i have been using, is Guitar Rig, by Native Instruments. As terrible as most people think amp modeling software is, this one takes the cake for being the most versatile, kick ass modeling software for guitar and bass ever made. There is a preset called 7 String. With a few boosts and cuts on the eq, and a little compression, it can sound phenomenal for all Metal styles. Similar in tone to Arch Enemy and old In Flames records.
Now, if you must mic the cab, DO NOT LET THEM SCOOP the EQ.
(if anyone doesnt know what that means: Push the bass and treble all the way up, and put the mids at zero, this is sooo old school and sounds like crap recorded.) Tell them that Lamb of God is using lots of mids on thier new record, as well as Children of Bodom. That might make them like it a little more.
The best way to get a good death metal sound with a marshall cab and head is to crank the hell out of the marshall. When they say, "it goes to 11" they should mean it. Turn the dist. channel preamp all the way up. Then turn up the volume until the desired saturation is achieved. Youre probably going to want to put the cab in its own room, as it will be pretty loud. You *usually* cant get the right amount of palm muted "chunk" unless its up there, but as always experiment with volume. Oh yeah, youre defenitely going to need a good noise gate on the guitars. I use a HUSH systems "The Pedal", a light blue thing, for my silencing. It does the job pretty well.
Now on to mic placement. As ALWAYS (to anyone reading this besides the question asker guy) experiment. I usually do a sm57 in the front, angled at the cone slightly, about and inch away from the grille of the cab. If it is an open back, then do as the other kind soul said and mic it too. This common technique should pick up most of the sound you need. If you happen to have a Sennheiser 421 laying about, use it on the back but defenitely use it somehow (i.e. as a further placed mic). It adds some clarity to the mix.
With the mix itself, defenitely try and record 2 seperate identical tracks and pan them left and right respectively. If you cant get the guitars to "link" up to your satisfaction, another technique is to duplicate the best track, pan each track left, or right, and then (if youre using protools, which i think you are) just barely drag one of the tracks to the right a tiny hair, just enough to make a difference, but not too much to make it sound "off". This will fatten up the sound and will invert the phase, making sure that no freq's are canceled out (as that is just what its for).
I guess most of this is all by your ears, but, hopefully someone out there who has no idea about recording will find this and it will help them get a decent sound.
This is fairly straightforward, and most will scoff at the amount of "common knowledge" here but it has the possibility to help someone.
As an avid death metal fan and engineer, i actually joined the forums just to post this. I hope it helps whomever asked for it.
Nicholas Dyches
Elephex Audio
www.elephex.com
-Portable Rig -
Apple 15in Titanium Powerbook
Digi002 Rack
AKG 'phones
Monster Cable Pro Link's, Planet Waves Cables for guitars.
Mics out the wazoo.
Keepin the scene ALIVE!!!
Ok, as a metal/thrash/whatever musician and engineer, heres a few tips.
If you want to get a good sound, its all about the amp and guitar (but you already know that)
If they have a 60w Marshall head, youre gonna be good to go. If it is a JCM series, good. if not, dont fret just yet.
A good idea for Death Metal, that i have been using, is Guitar Rig, by Native Instruments. As terrible as most people think amp modeling software is, this one takes the cake for being the most versatile, kick ass modeling software for guitar and bass ever made. There is a preset called 7 String. With a few boosts and cuts on the eq, and a little compression, it can sound phenomenal for all Metal styles. Similar in tone to Arch Enemy and old In Flames records.
Now, if you must mic the cab, DO NOT LET THEM SCOOP the EQ.
(if anyone doesnt know what that means: Push the bass and treble all the way up, and put the mids at zero, this is sooo old school and sounds like crap recorded.) Tell them that Lamb of God is using lots of mids on thier new record, as well as Children of Bodom. That might make them like it a little more.
The best way to get a good death metal sound with a marshall cab and head is to crank the hell out of the marshall. When they say, "it goes to 11" they should mean it. Turn the dist. channel preamp all the way up. Then turn up the volume until the desired saturation is achieved. Youre probably going to want to put the cab in its own room, as it will be pretty loud. You *usually* cant get the right amount of palm muted "chunk" unless its up there, but as always experiment with volume. Oh yeah, youre defenitely going to need a good noise gate on the guitars. I use a HUSH systems "The Pedal", a light blue thing, for my silencing. It does the job pretty well.
Now on to mic placement. As ALWAYS (to anyone reading this besides the question asker guy) experiment. I usually do a sm57 in the front, angled at the cone slightly, about and inch away from the grille of the cab. If it is an open back, then do as the other kind soul said and mic it too. This common technique should pick up most of the sound you need. If you happen to have a Sennheiser 421 laying about, use it on the back but defenitely use it somehow (i.e. as a further placed mic). It adds some clarity to the mix.
With the mix itself, defenitely try and record 2 seperate identical tracks and pan them left and right respectively. If you cant get the guitars to "link" up to your satisfaction, another technique is to duplicate the best track, pan each track left, or right, and then (if youre using protools, which i think you are) just barely drag one of the tracks to the right a tiny hair, just enough to make a difference, but not too much to make it sound "off". This will fatten up the sound and will invert the phase, making sure that no freq's are canceled out (as that is just what its for).
I guess most of this is all by your ears, but, hopefully someone out there who has no idea about recording will find this and it will help them get a decent sound.
This is fairly straightforward, and most will scoff at the amount of "common knowledge" here but it has the possibility to help someone.
As an avid death metal fan and engineer, i actually joined the forums just to post this. I hope it helps whomever asked for it.
Nicholas Dyches
Elephex Audio
www.elephex.com
-Portable Rig -
Apple 15in Titanium Powerbook
Digi002 Rack
AKG 'phones
Monster Cable Pro Link's, Planet Waves Cables for guitars.
Mics out the wazoo.
Keepin the scene ALIVE!!!
G
glimmer_doll
New member
I saw them open for In Flames...they're fucking intense live. The most brutal pit i've ever been in...mattamatta said:
E
elephex
New member
forgot
oh yeah,
on the kick. Dont even bother micing it, get some triggers and do it that way. Make sure you get a good click out of it. There is a preset on the Alesis DM5 that is called "Speed Metal" , The entire unit is pretty much useless except for that one sound on the kick. Check it out.
E|eph3x
oh yeah,
on the kick. Dont even bother micing it, get some triggers and do it that way. Make sure you get a good click out of it. There is a preset on the Alesis DM5 that is called "Speed Metal" , The entire unit is pretty much useless except for that one sound on the kick. Check it out.
E|eph3x
drummerdude666
immature
thanks very much guys. really appreciate your help. REP to you all! I'l post my results of the session in a few weeks. 
drummerdude666
drummerdude666
treymonfauntre
Magic Bag Of Sounds
JustaBassist said:
man how the fuck did from first to last get on that list? i used to know the guy that roadies for them, they were just awful sassy art fashion garbage last time i saw them. are they somehow metalcore now?
T
tylerxxx
New member
treymonfauntre said:
haha, from first to last is so far from metal/metalcore its not even funny.
and dude come on, if youre going to be a recording engineer youre going to have to have an open mind. you cant laugh at the music your clients want to record. their music = your project = your money. come on.
S
solaris0031
New member
elephex said:
Thats the worst idea I've heard. You can get a really good kick drum sound with mic'ing. Here's what I do:
(in my case with an audix f12) Put the capsule just inside the resonant head (maybe like an inch or so), pointed to where the beater(s) hit. It will still not sound right on the raw tracks, but here's where the magic comes in. I use a multiband compressor liberally to bring out the highs and lows and scoop the mids, while compressing the kick. also some eq if the comp isn't getting it there. for a clicky metal sound I find that cutting at 400-500 hz removes the flappy cardboard sound, and boosting at about 4-5khz brings out the clicky attack. Usually these guys wanna hear their kick drum, and having this click makes it so
1) you can hear the individual hits when they are doing a fit of 16ths instead of a faint rumble and
2) you can turn the overall level down so the lows on the kick aren't overpowering, because you can still hear those clicks up around 4khz.
If you want specifics on compression settings and what-not, I'd say that the kick drum preset on the multiband comp in cubase is a good start. You'll need to change it around a bit, but it's a start.
but then again maybe you want triggers? i dunno..... this method is just what has worked really well for me.
