Mixing observation.....

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sondriven

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Hello,

Tonight I have been mixing a couple of songs and have to say that my ears are fried and are still kinda ringing. Well as I was mixing, I got to a point where I couldnt tell if the vocals were loud enough and then I happened to stretch my back side to side. The sound change and my ears recieve a well deserved break. Of course for reasons I wasnt directly facing the speakers but I could hear different aspects of the mix. The vocals sounded very clear and distinct when I turn all the way around and a little louder than facing the speakers. Am I on crack or something because I really dont know where I was going with this thread.....I think I need tips on how long is too long for mixing and should a person mix as loud as they can or a happy medium. Anyway, thanks for listening to my rambles.

John
 
that happened to me yesterday. I stood up to get something and the vocal just jumped out of the mix. I thought the vocal was too loud anyhow so its going down.

Most mixing engineers move from the direct field of the speakers to hear if everything is in balance.
 
There was an interview with Dave Jerden (hope I spelled that right) a few years ago in Mix magazine. According to him the optimum level to listen at is 83db due to the Fletcher-Munsen curve. Do a search and you should come up with an in-depth explanation of said curve by RE. Everybody I know monitors most of the time at medium volumes with occasional checks at lower and higher volumes. Don't keep it cranked for very long or your ears will be blown, as will the rest of your mixing session.
 
One of the things I lke to do when I am mixing (home studio in my play room) is this: I mix during the day or afternoon. After I have all tracks leveled to my liking, I stop and leave everything as it is, and turn off the equipment. I then come back at 12 midnite, sometimes a little later, when everyone is asleep. I then listen to the mix at low volumes ( I don't want to wake anybody up at that late hour), with the lights off. I sit away from the mixing board, on a comfortable couch and listen in the dark, often times closing my eyes. The only lights there are in the room are the lights from the equipment and the natural moonlight coming in through the windows. I always get a nice persepctive on the mix and make whatever adjustments I need to make. The next morning, I play the mix on my car stereo, and its usually to my liking.
 
every hour or two, burn a copy of the mix and go play it on your stereo system...while system, walk around the room and even listen from another room...the time it takes you to burn the mix gives your ears a few minutes rest and the listening gives you a perspective on how your mix in going....you can even listen to it on your car stereo and go down to McDonalds to get that M&M McFlurry.....and a Large Fries......
 
Awesome tips! I have been doing the walking into the other room thing and listening to what really sticks out and what doesnt. And always burn a cd when Im done, and listen to it the next day in the car. I just wanted to hear how other people are doing it, cause it sounds like I try what a lot of people do. Its the final product that matters, how you get there isnt a single lane road.

RO-Add, thats a funny word. (From black sheep)...sorry...
 
Mixing Observation

All good ideas! 2 I can add are mix at low volumes but jack it up once and a whle to see what overall effect you are getting. Mix through a "gehto blaster type unit" or what most of your listeners will be listening through.
 
Yep, Ialways mix pretty low, only pumping it up when Im workingon the low end, and every nowand again just to reference the big picture.....
 
Lay it down, Play it loud. Pump it up.

I like to mix at an appreciably loud, but comfortable level, that's somewhere between "What'dya Say?" and "Threshold of Pain".

I then listen to my mixes, almost nonstop, practically every opportunity I get, enjoying it, thinking critically about it, and proofing it.

I like to listen to my CD mixes at home on my big stereo, where they were mixed, and also in the car, as a cross reference. I do quite a bit of proofing in the car, which I think gives a good reference as to how the mix will sound on any average, middle-of-the-road stereo or boombox.

My monitor system is a normal reciever, w/10 band stereo EQ, EQ'd for FLAT response, playing through [8] loudspeakers:
- [4] 4-way, 15" speakers
- [2] 3-way 12" speakers
- [2] 3-way 10" speakers

I think what's important about my monitor system, is not that it's all that powerful, it's not, but that it's got ample amounts of large speaker capacity, I play it loud but not too loud, and it's *ADJUSTED FOR FLAT RESPONSE*, in the room.

This is a point that I can't emphasize enough: the importance for FLAT MONITOR RESPONSE as measured at the ambient listening position, sometimes referred to as "flattening the room".

Mixdown your stuff, and keep reviewing and proofing it, until you're either blue in the face, or you've decided it's right, good enough, or needs redoing altogether.

/DA
 
Awe man, If your ears are ringing then your mixing with the too high of SPL's, your overloading your ears and causing distortion. Once youve past that point it can takes days for your ears to regain the proper sensitivity. Ringing is your bodies way of saying, you've overexcited my little nerves please stop. Ive youve ever played live without ear protection there is a good chance your ears might already have isolated damage effecting certain frequencies. Not everyone can tolerate the same SPL's, you can sort of use a chart that I think OSHA keeps at their website on what levels are reasonable from a medical standpoint. If you blow your hearing, its over, bye bye, see ya later, no more tracking, mixing or mastering for you. I have super sensitive hearing, I can hear a watch ticking at close to 15 feet, its great for somethings but try getting to sleep when you can hear spiders walking around under the bed. I do suggest regular hearing tests by a medical facility to insure that your ears are healthy. If your in the business of recording I think you should do it out of respect for the clients, if one ear is different, you can send a pre master thats out of balance sonically. Don't get into the loop of turning it up, damaging your ears, then turning it up because you can't hear the vocals. Your ears are most valuable tool in any studios arsenal, without healthy ears, it doesn't matter what you own.

Peace,
Dennis
 
BTW, kids,...

I like my music turned up a bit, to where it's loud & full sounding, but comfortable.

I never listen to overly loud monitors for extended periods, to the extent of ringing or actual 'threshold of pain', and I don't recommend that anyone does, either.

Realistically, at peak loudness, during mixdown & otherwise, I'm probably running about 40%-50% of the amp's total power capacity.

If your ears ring, hurt, or your hearing is suffering, then it's way too loud, by definition. You may want to turn it down, a bit.

Usually, high SPL's is more a hazard of live music, and live playing in the studio, and less often from mixdown.

F/I, I have very sensitive ears, and when I've played with heavy handed drummers, I'll use ear plugs. Sometimes a hard drum hit can pop or pound my eardrums, and extended periods of time of that extreme loudness definitely caused ringing in my ears, at times in the past.

Ringing ears is no fun, especially for us musicians, but you just have to turn it down on mixdown, especially if you're putting in long hours of mixing and listening. With regard to tracking and live instruments, sometimes ear plugs is a good idea.

Pete Townsend has permanent ringing and hearing loss. Is it any wonder why?

Pete's gone partially deaf, which is an extreme case, of course, but we all have to take care of our ears and our hearing.

- I still like my music appreciably loud, especially on mixdowns, but I'm not talking about extremes. I'm talking about the maximum volume that's reasonable and comfortable.


Mix on!


/DA
 
I find that when I mix loud and then turn it down, it sucks....

If I mix at a low volume and crank it it sounds better.....

whatever gets you from point A to point B with the best results is the way you should mix....
 
I typically use a fairly cheap SPL meter that I purchased at Radio Shack. It is a small digital meter and gives the readings in dB. When mixing down, I set the volume so that the meter reads around 86 - 87 on the loud portions.

I have found that this helps with a consistent mix. I think the meter was around $40.
 
Actually... it's a good idea to set up your mix with the volume up above the 85db........ then back down as you work it...

The reason for this is so that you set decent levels on your mixer -- if you start with too low a volume, there will be a tendency to "turn up the faders" to place the levels and you risk eating into your console headroom.

So you get your basic levels in place with the monitors up so that you can "feel it" -- then back down to around the 85db mark for the adjustments and rest of the mixing.......

YMMV.....

Bruce
 
I find that when I mix loud and then turn it down, it sucks....

If I mix at a low volume and crank it it sounds better.....

Ya, louder always sounds better!:)
I find I last longer if I keep it way moderate. Checking it from another room, and making it sound good turned real low are both wonderful tools.



Say bye to George
My guitar is weeping now
 
I've read both here and a couple other places that mixing at a low volume is beneficial in the sense that you minimize the effect of picking up the acoustics of the room you are mixing in.. This might explain why some people have better results when mixing low: If you are working in a room that doesn't color your perception of the mix, you will have more success mixing at louder volumes than someone who is mixing out of their sock drawer.

I mix at low volumes most of the time, raising the volume towards the end of the session to ensure I didn't overshoot the lows..

Cy
 
I do most of the things already mentioned here. I go back and forth from my monitoring system (for detail) to the stereo (line in to save CD's) and fiddle with the EQ setting on the stereo to see how it reacts. What will it sound like when someone scoops the mids and boosts the lows and highs? Whoa! Kick from hell!! Hmm...what about someone who boosts the mids...

I also rely heavily on other ears. I play mixs for my more tolerant friends and get thier opinions. I have learned to be careful not to lead thier perception. If I ask "Are the vocals too loud?" then they listen to the vocals and forget to tell me that the guitar sounds like its in a tin can...

I sometimes purposefully listen to a song (not while mixing) until I'm sick of it. Then I can hear what's there instead of just the parts that I like.

I also go back and retouch (lightly) after a month or so of working on other things- or just plain NOT doing music. It always brings in a fresh perspective if you can allow the time for it.

Take care,
Chris
 
Chris,

Yeah, I just redid almost all my songs and it was after I hadnt touch them in a couple weeks. I noticed a lot of things screwed up or weak. So I remastered them and rerecorded some parts. I feel like now they are done until I have them professionally mastered or something.

But definitely taking a break from the songs really helps and I have found that out just recently.

John
 
Gidge said:
every hour or two, burn a copy of the mix and go play it on your stereo system...while system, walk around the room and even listen from another room...the time it takes you to burn the mix gives your ears a few minutes rest and the listening gives you a perspective on how your mix in going....you can even listen to it on your car stereo and go down to McDonalds to get that M&M McFlurry.....and a Large Fries......
Click to expand...

Bingo on that one, Gidge. One of the first things I learned form personal experience and through reading was that the automobile is perhaps one of the finest listening environments. Listening to your mix on anything you can get your grubby hands on is a big plus.

And it gives you a break from the board. Get up. Relax. Get a drink. Smoke a cig, etc. Basically, get away from the board before you fuck something up. Thats my analogy.

Im fairly new here, so hi everyone.
 
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