Mixing Hi Hats?????

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Raydio

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I make hip hop beats and when I have a niced compressed kick & snare, along with nice percussion elements and a melody; when I had a hi hat to add life and fullness to the beat, the hi hat just doesn't sit in the mix right. I hear commecial CDs where the hats are low but present enough for you to feel them; when I lower the volume, the hats kind of still clutter up the stereo width and get lost in the beat. I usually do like Timbalandish doubletime music, so I use hats and shakes quite a bit to get that "bouncy" feel. Also, do you guys use shuffle when quantizing to give your hats a more huminized feel?
 
Raydio said:
...when I had a hi hat to add life and fullness to the beat, the hi hat just doesn't sit in the mix right.
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Have you tried having a drummer come over with his hi-hat and let him play hats to the song and record it? You can probably get the feel you want that way. It was done all the time way back when drum machines were first being used on sessions to add the live feel to mechanized rhythms.

...when I lower the volume, the hats kind of still clutter up the stereo width and get lost in the beat.
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Are you using some sort of Stereo hi-hat sound from your drum machine? If so, don't. use one side of it (or use both sides of it but pan them both to one point in the mix). Also, maybe you've got too much going on. Try bringing the hats in and out of the mix, or mute other parts to allow the hats to work their magic. One other thing, don't be afraid to EQ your hi-hats to make them fit better. Usually it's better to cut the lows.

I usually do like Timbalandish doubletime music, so I use hats and shakes quite a bit to get that "bouncy" feel. Also, do you guys use shuffle when quantizing to give your hats a more huminized feel?
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As you may observe from my responses above I prefer a live drummer to a machine so I'll reserve comment on this part of it.
 
Well Im using Fruity Loops for my hi hats, and my hats go so fast sometimes that I don't a drummer could keep up, LOL. Remember its hip hop. As far the stereo hi hat effect goes; I've heard of it but Im not sure how to do it with Fruity Loops. I sample all of my hats from other hip hop songs so how should I pan them?
Somebody told me to make a copy of my hi hat track, and add Fruity's Delay plugin on it with about 20ms of delay, and the center of the stereo field should open up; it didnt work. Help!!!! LOL.
 
Many times substitution of a cabassa or some other sound in place of an actual hi-hat sound works better in a mix. Sometimes the attack of the hi-hat compromises the groove, whereas a smoother attack of a cabassa works better.

But I think your previous post may be a clue - you indicate the hi-hat part is too fast for a drummer to play.

A good rule of thumb (no mater what kind of music) is to program drum parts which are "realistic" meaning that a drummer can play and would play.

If you have a hi-hat pattern going that fast - it can't be leaving enough space for the music to groove.
 
Not true! 3 6 Mafia, which consist of producers Juicy J & DJ Paul use doubletime hi hats also; and they are said to be the leaders of bouncy production. My hi hats go at the same speed as their and sometimes slower. They don't take away from the groove tho.

Everything else you posted was vital, and I thank you so much for it. I really hate to subsitute tho, I want to know how to work with my hi hats, to make them sit better in the mix. I use cabassas and stuff too, but we're talking about hats. Somebody helllllp!!!!! LOL.
 
I deal with real drums far more than canned ones, so I'm no expert here. But i'm not sure why hi-hats pose a particular challenge?

These techniques are the same as i wouild use for any instrument that was standing out too much in the mix:

•If they are too bright, roll some high end off.

•If they sound too "up-front" add some small room ambience until they start "moving back" in the mix.

•If there are only occasional hits that jump out of the mix, but the rest of the track is ok, compress the shit out of it using a high threshold, short attack, and a very high ratio.

•If they don't sound like "part of the kit" run the whole kit through into a stereo subgroup and use compression and a bit of room on the whole thing.

•If the HH is being triggered by a midi sequencer, see if limiting the triggering velocity changes the tone in a useful way. Once it's recorded as audio, you can always raise the volume back up.
 
Thanks lildog; that was hott!!!! Well I have a few questions.

About at what frequency should I start cutting the high end?

When you said group the kit, if the hi hat sounds like it didnt come from the kit; do i still group the hi hat along with the other drums? Or the other drums by itself?

Thanks again
 
Perhaps it lies within the compression of your mix.

If you're mixing the rest of the beat with a high release ratio before adding your hi hats, they're bound to stand out from the rest of the mix.

However, if you're compressing your mix with your hi hats added for the first time, having a high attack rate will bring the hats out more forward, whereas having a high release rate will set them back in the mix.

I suggest compressing with a very high release to set your hi hats into the mix comfortably.
 
I just finished 2 tracks on an R&B/HipHop compilation album.

You said that you sample your hats from other songs. Maybe that's the problem. If you're sampling from a song then you're probably not just getting the hihat your probably also getting other instruments, reverb, etc.

Try using another hi hat. Fruityloops has lots of hihat samples you could use.
 
I also use FL. I sometimes have this same problem. You may try some EQ other than the plugin EQ that comes with Fruity. I hate it. Also mess with the cutoff and resonance filters. That can a lot of times take out "sizzle" in hi-hats.

Good luck.

Kerosene Trewthe
formerly
Sondriven
 
Good info guys; well Im also using a Triton Classic 61 key and a Nord Lead module. I sample from other songs but even when I use FL's hi hats, they stand out too much. I find using sampled hats better than the FL ones because the FL ones are harder to blend.

Check it out though, what Im trying to do is free up the center of the stereo field by panning the hi hats but I don't want my hats to loose that stereo effect and sound like they are mostly in one speaker, ya kno? Thats why before i asked yawl about delay. Any more tips?
 
get two different hihat samples and pan one hard left and one hard right.

xoxo
 
Raydio said:
Good info guys; well Im also using a Triton Classic 61 key and a Nord Lead module. I sample from other songs but even when I use FL's hi hats, they stand out too much. I find using sampled hats better than the FL ones because the FL ones are harder to blend.

Check it out though, what Im trying to do is free up the center of the stereo field by panning the hi hats but I don't want my hats to loose that stereo effect and sound like they are mostly in one speaker, ya kno? Thats why before i asked yawl about delay. Any more tips?
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Just pan it 1-3% either way.. it'll leave room for the emcee yet maintain the stereo effect..

Wow @ the Nord Lead.. Hows that? I was considering buying one. I have a Karma 61 key and a Roland JV-1010.
 
Thanks Sol for the info. The Nord Lead's versatility is completely amazing. If you are looking for that hott current industry sound, the Nord Lead is a nice way to go. Just be patient, the Korg Karma is an easier unit to work with than most Nords. The big difference is that you can create amazing sounds that are landmarked by Dre and loads of R&B producers. The Roland JV 1010 is decent, but a lot of cats who produce hip hop have them, especially on the Net, so you have to really struggle to alter the sound and be original. I heard some of your work, its nice work. Just visit a local Sam Ash or Guitar Center and see if the Nord is right for you. Peace, and if peeps got other feedback on getting hi hats the way I explained, just post.
 
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