Mixing DI Bass or Guitar

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4tracker

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Specially I am interested in any tricks to get amp sims to sit in a mix. To me they sound very 2-dimensional (like all DI), and even moving the mics around in the software doesn't seem to help. The only thing I have found helps is recording two tracks and panning L/R them while using a good convolution, maybe a little reverb if the song allows. Does anyone have any other tips or tricks? I pray for a day soon when amp sims will be up to par (or at least get that horrendous brittle frequency out of there).
 
Are you doing anything else to the two tracks (panned L/R) other than panning them?

I normally use a DI mixed with either a sim or a mic on a real amp if I can - which Sim are you using? I usually find that a DI has a different balance of lows and mids to a mic, so sometimes taking a little of the bass out can help.
 
I always record two rhythms and pan them.

If your sim has a bunch of brittle highs, your sim sucks. You can just use a low pass filter at 5k-6k.

If I need more "air", I send a little of the guitars to the drum reverb to pull it all together.

All of this really depends on the guitar tone you are going for, the type of song you are playing and the role of the guitar in the mix...
 
Farview said:
I always record two rhythms and pan them.

If your sim has a bunch of brittle highs, your sim sucks. You can just use a low pass filter at 5k-6k.

If I need more "air", I send a little of the guitars to the drum reverb to pull it all together.

All of this really depends on the guitar tone you are going for, the type of song you are playing and the role of the guitar in the mix...
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I'm using amplitube. Is it bad? What is a better sim? I bought some boutique ones lately that seem better but not great, and you can't move mic position around.

Every amplitube amp has this awful harsh/brittle sound around 2k. I think my gain staging is fine so it can't be that. I record -20db through a focusrite (the model with 4xlrs on the front). I'm trying for a clean/warm tone, but even when going for distortion it sounds harsh and digital.

DI bass sounds mostly good tone-wise, just sits very up front in a mix.
 
I don't know much about amplitube, but someone recently posted clips using a real amp and its Amplitube 4 counterpart. I couldn't hear a difference. His point was that version 4 has come a long way to mimicking the real thing.

I just bought the UAD softube vintage room. Their fender sim is pretty darn good.

I think the quality of the sim is a major point. But I also think expectations are another major point. My old Digitech modeler doesn't sound like the original amps, but I get useable tones out of it because I'm not expecting a marshall or a mesa. I tweak until I get what sounds good and not necessarily what sounds accurate.

Probably none of the helps, but....
 
If the sound/distortion is what you are looking for, just eq down the 2k.

I had a really old version of amplitube, I had the same problem with it. It isn't as noticeable in the mix as it is when you are just listening to it by itself.

It is the sort of thing that is close enough that you can make it work with some eq and reverb.
 
Farview said:
It is the sort of thing that is close enough that you can make it work with some eq and reverb.
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Exactly. That's what I've been doing. I've also been using LePou with Rosen digital plugins, and honestly they can sound very good with some tweaking, BUT, you can't change mics or distance the mix from the cab, etc with that impulse loader. Rosen gives only 3 files of each amp, all recorded at slightly different positions, and their idea is one will work. That's usually true. Another downside is that unlike Amplitube, you can't put any effects on them. Not that sim effects are any good, but it is a drawback if you're in a pinch for an effect. BTW, is it possible to run a hardware effect pedal into the LePou/Rosen sim? i.e. Do hardware pedals run into a preamp sound awful?
 
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And I think one part of the problem was user error in this case. Or software error. I realized focusrite's control panel software turned off my "instrument level" signal without me realizing it. So this could explain some of the issues with this signal. It recorded at line/mic level instead of instrument. It looks like every time I turn this interface off it resets that. Something I definitely need to remember in the future. It seems like a bug they should fix, because I thought I had input 1 as instrument level at all times once I set it in their mixControl software. I'll re-record it tonight to see if changing it to instrument level helps it out at all.
 
In the mix, you can just insert any VST effect before or after the sim. (or send effect for that matter)

You might be focusing on moving the mic around a little more than you need to. While it can be handy, the same thing can be done with EQ and reverb. The farther away the mic is, the less bassy it gets. Also the room becomes a thing. In the real world, I really don't move the mic around that much and I almost never pull it back from the grill. I guess I just don't look for that out of my sims.
 
Farview said:
In the mix, you can just insert any VST effect before or after the sim. (or send effect for that matter)

You might be focusing on moving the mic around a little more than you need to. While it can be handy, the same thing can be done with EQ and reverb. The farther away the mic is, the less bassy it gets. Also the room becomes a thing.
Click to expand...

Yeah good point. I guess it's a false sense of...control or options that don't really matter. That's probably why Rosen and LePou don't even bother with it.

But what about the 2nd part of the question: can I take an actual hardware pedal, say a chorus pedal or wah, and plug it into the audio interface and use that pedal with an amp sim? I moved to CA and don't have any of my pedals, so I can't try it out. I'd rather use a real pedal if they sound good than the effect pedals in the sim, which to me sound terrible.
 
Sure, you can use real pedals. You just have to watch the recording level. Some pedals have a boost. Just don't clip the interface and you will be fine.

With direct guitar, you can get your peaks up around -6 to -3dbfs without any real consequences. For the same reason you can let drums peak up there, the sound is mostly transient, so the preamp won't saturate.
 
I just posted a song in the mix clinic that has the DI bass and guitars if anyone's curious what I'm dealing with. That's about the best I can do right now with my gear (need to get my pedals back), so any tips to improve upon what you hear there would be great.
 
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