T
Timothy C
New member
Starting to make video documentaries with digital video and have become obsessed with sound. In particular, getting high quality free sound to layer in the stereo sound track for eventual DV output.
I want to record local musicians for a dedicated sound tracks -- and for crowd and atmospheric sounds such as cheering, wind, fire, rushing water, screech of tires, squeak of sneakers on gym floor etc. Also conversations that I will layer on top of the main mic -- such as individuals in a crowd at a game.
When introduced to the Sony Mini-Disc at local guitar shop, was blown away by the sound with ECM-717 stereo mic recording local fingerpicking guitarist. Great 3-D sense of sound, robust bass, clear treble. Great!
Even better: iLink digital wire to computer. Fifteen hours of querying puzzled tech support later, I realize: Download digital - yes! Upload digital to computer from Mini-disc? No!
Next step: Buy Cakewalk, Monster cables, adapters, get analog upload. Not bad. Say.... 97 percent of initial impression. Trouble is: If I want to make a CD or upload high quality audio file for use in Premiere video editing, Dell sound card is takes mono input.
Still, recording of classical guitar with ECM-mic near sound hole sounds like the best recording I have ever heard. Rich bass, great resonance. Wow. Listen a little longer, start to hear the flaws: Mic picks up buzzes easily. a little trebly.
Wound up buying EMagic external sound card. 24-bit, stereo input now. Nice. But output is marginal on volume level. Start to hear hiss from too-wound-out sound cards, speakers turned up high, barely squeaking by with enough voluime.
Some guys at local sound shop recommend amplifier. I think: Oh no, makes it worse. Another layer of translated sound? Probably loses 5-10 percent of initial quality. What to do?
Another guy says: Aw, you shoulda gone DAT. They upload digitally and the transfer is lossless. The Mini-Disc is cool, but its compression technology can't help but lose some of the sound. You can tell it's bright, but not so rich, eh?
OK. Suck it up and find best price for a Sony PCM-1 DAT and
Sony ECM-M?957 condenser mic. Vow to compare the two. Do NOT want to spend so much extra money.
Just before DAT arrives, another guy at another shop who records professionally tells me: Hey, the DAT is the eight-track of the 2000s. It does not get any better sound than the Mini-disc and that mic is bulky and gets in the way and isn't any better than the ECM-717. In fact, it's worse. The DAT is just an expensive white elephant.
OK. I will test em.
Get the PCM-1. ECM-957 mic. Tapes.
Now for the side by side test. Switch mics, too. Use the ECM with both Mini disc (usual) and DAT (new one) Use 957 with mini disc and DAT.
I think: Big DAT is harder to handle. No anonymity with that darn big new mic and its foam wind cover. More like a bus than a sports car.
Big new mic doesn't pick up as much live sound as the ECM-717 with the DAT nor the the Mini-Disc. Olympic TV with stereo speakers of luge and skating presents a tough test. ECM-717, especially with Mini-disc, cuts to clear sound, picking out announcers voices with sharpness. Sounds a little echoe-ey and tinny. ECM-717 real good at poicking up wide circle of ambient sound with either DAT or mini-disc.
Voices: 957 and DAT more neutral, less bright, not exactly rich.
BUT
Without as many sharp, high trebles, DAT+957 large mic real good at full rich understated complete neutral sound. Yeah, I would pick it for the important concerts. But for quiet quick work, the mini-disc, even without digital upload capability, would be adequate for many uses.
Biggest flaw with the mini-disc+ECM 717 combo is mic noise from handling it. How do i set up a handle that won't set off distracting fingers-on-mic noises? Can't hold my breath and close eyes and meditating to not move fingers on every sound take.
One sound shop guy in town says:
Mini-disc specs EQUAL TO -- DAT.
Another guy says: DAT specs and 957 specs clearly have numbers on their side. It is clearly worth the money.
Sony and Mic $320
DAT and Mic $950.
Who's right? And why?
***
NOTE to this crowd: I apologize because am starting with NO technical knowledge of audio terms. I do know still and digital video photography and so I use those concepts to figure out issues by myself and for processing all thgis new information information relating to audio. So when I write here I am thinking in terms of parallels to larger-smaller negative size in photography and think similar comparisons might well hold true in my DAT vs. Mini-disc shootout.....
I want to record local musicians for a dedicated sound tracks -- and for crowd and atmospheric sounds such as cheering, wind, fire, rushing water, screech of tires, squeak of sneakers on gym floor etc. Also conversations that I will layer on top of the main mic -- such as individuals in a crowd at a game.
When introduced to the Sony Mini-Disc at local guitar shop, was blown away by the sound with ECM-717 stereo mic recording local fingerpicking guitarist. Great 3-D sense of sound, robust bass, clear treble. Great!
Even better: iLink digital wire to computer. Fifteen hours of querying puzzled tech support later, I realize: Download digital - yes! Upload digital to computer from Mini-disc? No!
Next step: Buy Cakewalk, Monster cables, adapters, get analog upload. Not bad. Say.... 97 percent of initial impression. Trouble is: If I want to make a CD or upload high quality audio file for use in Premiere video editing, Dell sound card is takes mono input.
Still, recording of classical guitar with ECM-mic near sound hole sounds like the best recording I have ever heard. Rich bass, great resonance. Wow. Listen a little longer, start to hear the flaws: Mic picks up buzzes easily. a little trebly.
Wound up buying EMagic external sound card. 24-bit, stereo input now. Nice. But output is marginal on volume level. Start to hear hiss from too-wound-out sound cards, speakers turned up high, barely squeaking by with enough voluime.
Some guys at local sound shop recommend amplifier. I think: Oh no, makes it worse. Another layer of translated sound? Probably loses 5-10 percent of initial quality. What to do?
Another guy says: Aw, you shoulda gone DAT. They upload digitally and the transfer is lossless. The Mini-Disc is cool, but its compression technology can't help but lose some of the sound. You can tell it's bright, but not so rich, eh?
OK. Suck it up and find best price for a Sony PCM-1 DAT and
Sony ECM-M?957 condenser mic. Vow to compare the two. Do NOT want to spend so much extra money.
Just before DAT arrives, another guy at another shop who records professionally tells me: Hey, the DAT is the eight-track of the 2000s. It does not get any better sound than the Mini-disc and that mic is bulky and gets in the way and isn't any better than the ECM-717. In fact, it's worse. The DAT is just an expensive white elephant.
OK. I will test em.
Get the PCM-1. ECM-957 mic. Tapes.
Now for the side by side test. Switch mics, too. Use the ECM with both Mini disc (usual) and DAT (new one) Use 957 with mini disc and DAT.
I think: Big DAT is harder to handle. No anonymity with that darn big new mic and its foam wind cover. More like a bus than a sports car.
Big new mic doesn't pick up as much live sound as the ECM-717 with the DAT nor the the Mini-Disc. Olympic TV with stereo speakers of luge and skating presents a tough test. ECM-717, especially with Mini-disc, cuts to clear sound, picking out announcers voices with sharpness. Sounds a little echoe-ey and tinny. ECM-717 real good at poicking up wide circle of ambient sound with either DAT or mini-disc.
Voices: 957 and DAT more neutral, less bright, not exactly rich.
BUT
Without as many sharp, high trebles, DAT+957 large mic real good at full rich understated complete neutral sound. Yeah, I would pick it for the important concerts. But for quiet quick work, the mini-disc, even without digital upload capability, would be adequate for many uses.
Biggest flaw with the mini-disc+ECM 717 combo is mic noise from handling it. How do i set up a handle that won't set off distracting fingers-on-mic noises? Can't hold my breath and close eyes and meditating to not move fingers on every sound take.
One sound shop guy in town says:
Mini-disc specs EQUAL TO -- DAT.
Another guy says: DAT specs and 957 specs clearly have numbers on their side. It is clearly worth the money.
Sony and Mic $320
DAT and Mic $950.
Who's right? And why?
***
NOTE to this crowd: I apologize because am starting with NO technical knowledge of audio terms. I do know still and digital video photography and so I use those concepts to figure out issues by myself and for processing all thgis new information information relating to audio. So when I write here I am thinking in terms of parallels to larger-smaller negative size in photography and think similar comparisons might well hold true in my DAT vs. Mini-disc shootout.....
